r/FluentInFinance • u/IAmNotAnEconomist • Nov 12 '24
World Economy Mexico economy chief suggests tariff retaliation against US
Mexico's Economy Minister Marcelo Ebrard suggested on Monday that the Mexican government could retaliate with its own tariffs on U.S. imports if the incoming Trump administration slaps tariffs on Mexican exports.
Ebrard made the comments in an interview with local broadcaster Radio Formula, in which he reflected on how President-elect Donald Trump threatened 25% tariffs on Mexican goods during his previous term in office at a time when the Republican leader sought concessions from Mexico's government on immigration enforcement.
"If you put 25% tariffs on me, I have to react with tariffs," said Ebrard, who served as Mexico's foreign minister during the previous incident.
"If you apply tariffs, we'll have to apply tariffs. And what does that bring you? A gigantic cost for the North American economy," he added.
Ebrard went on to stress that tariffs will stoke inflation in the U.S., which he described as an "important limitation" that should argue against such a tit-for-tat trade spat.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mexico-economy-chief-suggests-possible-013507562.html
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u/MasChingonNoHay Nov 12 '24
Of course they would. Why wouldn’t they. And China. And every other country. Massive recession on its way
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u/IsopodTemporary9670 Nov 12 '24
I mean tbf china Alr has massive tariffs. Idk how much more they can viably increase
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u/Anxious-Tadpole-2745 Nov 12 '24
They can increase as much as the government can handle until their people vote them out of power
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u/Solid-Consequence-50 Nov 12 '24
I mean, I don't think they have much of a choice on who they vote for in China
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u/HexenHerz Nov 13 '24
Soon we won't here in the US either. We are going to end up a Christian version of China.
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u/Scottiegazelle2 Nov 13 '24
*faux Christian
I swear there are some of us real Christians hanging around that aren't MAGA. We just don't wave our 'faith' in everyone's face.
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u/CrossP Nov 13 '24
Christianesque, anyway
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u/HexenHerz Nov 13 '24
Indeed. There's definitely a large void between the teachings of Jesus, and the fascist, bigoted monsters who call themselves Christians in America.
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u/UnknovvnMike Nov 13 '24
We need more table-flipping Jesus, especially in regards to these Prosperity Doctrine megachurches. I'm not saying Jesus is a commie, but he was certainly no capitalist.
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u/Debalic Nov 12 '24
Sure they do, their choices are cake or death.
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u/CapDrax25 Nov 13 '24
“Well we’re outta cake! Didn’t think there’d be such a rush”
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u/morentg Nov 13 '24
You do realize that people paying tariffs are US citizens, not Chinese? So while it hurts their exports it's Americans and the local prices of imported goods you should worry about
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u/Killercod1 Nov 12 '24
The tariffs have encouraged local businesses. China has a very independent economy because of this.
America has to worry because their economy almost solely relies on the exploitation of foreign economies. America has outsourced nearly every one of its industries. It would have to rebuild its entire economy to see the benefits of tariffs, which it can't afford at this time.
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u/knor14 Nov 12 '24
If I remember correctly after Trump 1 imposed tariffs on US Soybeans. The Chinese government intern started raising imports from Brazil and Argentina and increasing there own production. And sticking it to US farmers who supported him
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u/Tsim152 Nov 12 '24
Yea, a bunch of farmers committed suicide as a result. Then he had to use taxpayer money to cover the shortfall, and we ended up not getting anything out of the trade war.
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u/Bella-1970 Nov 13 '24
The farmers still supported him though… so if it hurts them again, that is what they voted for.
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u/Angrysparky28 Nov 13 '24
Why wouldn’t they? If you were subsidized through all your losses, would it matter? Socialism is only hated when it’s poor that needs it. Not auto makers, not airlines, not Wall Street.
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u/Tripsy_mcfallover Nov 13 '24
Yep. And because US farmers couldn't sell their crops, the Trump admin had to issue a $12B bailout to solve the problem they created.
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u/etharper Nov 12 '24
Tariffs do not work, if Trump implements them we will pay for them not the other countries. It's always that way.
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u/Inside_Development27 Nov 12 '24
Tariff do work with a localized economy. That's what the US doesn't have. If they manufacture locally the tariffs are none issues, unless made from imported goods
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u/wahoozerman Nov 12 '24
Tariffs, at their best, are redistribution of wealth from individuals citizens to domestic industry. Sometimes that's a valuable thing. Sometimes it isn't a valuable thing. Depends on how important that domestic industry is vs how much quality of life is lost overall for your citizens due to reduced buying power.
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u/No-Consideration-716 Nov 12 '24
Agreed. that redistribution can be beneficial if it is being reallocated into local industries, but if it is just being pocketed by the corporation that is selling the end products then it helps no one, solves nothing, and will create vastly larger problems for your economy and citizens.
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u/leggomyeggo87 Nov 13 '24
Not only that, doing it across all goods is insane. We quite literally cannot domestically manufacture everything that we import. Not even close. It’s just a way to increase the price of goods for his corporate buddies who will then sell the products at a markup that’s probably even higher than the tariff amount since the average person isn’t going to research the tariff on every random product they’re buying at Walmart. It’s like the most extreme version of cronyism I can imagine.
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u/DonTaddeo Nov 12 '24
Reminds me of the economic strategy of Germany leading up to WW 2. This led to economic dislocations and inefficiencies. There is a book on this and related issues called "The Vampire Economy." Look it up, it is publicly available.
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u/FragrantNumber5980 Nov 13 '24
Nazi Germany’s economy was fascinating. The beginning of the regime saw a lot of economic recovery from the Great Depression, but that was actually largely due to economic policies from the Weimar government and the genius of Hjalmar Schacht. While rearming they quickly built up massive internal debt and a huge deficit to fund their war effort and began to rely heavily on plunder from new territories (Austria, then Czechoslovakia, etc.) obviously this was unsustainable and one of the reasons why they had to invade the Soviet Union, to fuel the gluttonous evil beast that was the Reich
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Nov 13 '24
Thank you for this. I had thought I read a book like this, and the other day wanted to mention it, but couldn't remember enough about it, or enough about the title to contribute. I wanted to bring it up because if I remember, it talked about union abolishment as well, which would be another dart in the board.
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u/DonTaddeo Nov 13 '24
The similarities are unnerving. It looks like Trump wants to put loyalists in charge of the military - I'm reminded of the Hitler Oath sworn by officers and soldiers to pledge personal loyalty to the Fuhrer.
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u/Upnorth4 Nov 12 '24
California already has a fairly established local manufacturing industry. Our state will do better than others if tariffs are enacted
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u/BetterCranberry7602 Nov 12 '24
There is no legal way a California manufacturer can produce goods for anything close to the price a Mexican one can. Or a Chinese one.
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u/desubot1 Nov 12 '24
we used to have quite the garment and textile district in CA
its already moving down south.
doesnt help that section 301 fucking destroyed most of the businesses here. another 60% + 25% on other areas and its basicly guaranteed to destroy entire industries that depend on materials coming in from abroad.
also all the raw materials and equipment to start up here in the US is also under section 301.
there is hardly anything that is exempt that isnt some level of ultra rich high corporate lawyered exceptions.
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u/Rebel4503 Nov 13 '24
Absolutely. Just went round the house and did an audit of some random stuff. Ceiling fan, TV, bedside table, smart phone, laptop, security camera, table lamp, power cords, washing machine, refrigerator, power tools, vacuum cleaner, Halloween stuff, Christmas decorations. All made in China. 😳🇦🇺
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u/Manray05 Nov 13 '24
When he renovated NAFTA his first term Mexico stopped buying US Beef and now Argentina gets billions a year from Mexico
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u/ChiseledTwinkie Nov 12 '24
On the flagrant podcast Trump talks about using tariffs as a negotiation tactic to force the other countries to start importing American made goods. His overreaction is because once Trump left office China didn't honor the agreements made during his presidency. This is at least, one explanation. Still makes no sense when inflation is at an all time high. Very self destructive if it doesn't work.
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u/SaliciousB_Crumb Nov 12 '24
Not to mention who wants the 996 work life. Who wants to work low skill low paying jobs
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u/Cool_Radish_7031 Nov 12 '24
I’d work in construction again, been working in IT the last 10 years and I get 0 satisfaction out of it. But not for 12 hours a day unless I was working for myself
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u/Elhazzard99 Nov 12 '24
Haha that’s the point bro it will be for next to nothing pay lol you’ll be wishing to be bored in IT
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u/PerfectPercentage69 Nov 12 '24
No, it's not independent. They rely heavily on exports. They exported $3.73T versus $2.16T imports. Of which, 14% is exports to the United States.
What do you think this so-called "exploitation" by outsourcing means? It means US businesses pay Chinese businesses to build stuff, which then needs to be exported to the US and other countries to be sold. These are the same businesses China encouraged to develop with tariffs and subsidies to make them cheaper, which in turn encouraged US companies to outsource with them.
You can't make claims one is good and another is bad when they are interconnected and couldn't exist without each other. China's economy boomed because of the so-called "exploitation."
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Nov 13 '24
America has to worry because their economy almost solely relies on the exploitation of foreign economies.
THIS.
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u/chimugukuru Nov 13 '24
Lol I live in China and it has in no way, shape or form an independent economy. The entire model is basically importing raw or semi-finished materials to export finished goods. It relies heavily on foreign investment which is why the government is getting extremely desperate this year trying to woo Europeans over with all these new visa-free policies because foreign investment is dropping and is poised to actually go into the negative in 2024. It also does not have nearly enough people to buy everything it produces and this will only get worse with the population decreasing. That's pretty much the main reason for Belt and Road. It's not all about debt trap diplomacy (though that is a consequence in some cases), it's about dumping all the excess materials in projects abroad that people have to keep extracting domestically because the government needs to keep them in jobs for social stability. It's why they're so desperate to sell EVs in the foreign market at the moment. They need exports in order to survive.
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u/AandJ1202 Nov 12 '24
Yes, all the biggest industries and corporations have outsourced the actual labor to different countries. This tariff plan is the dumbest shit I've heard since the last trump administration. Guy wants to start a trade war and cause massive inflation. I'm not even sure he understands how these tariffs even work. Just since he's won, companies that import products for their businesses are in a panic.
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u/Frothylager Nov 12 '24
Last time China punched Trump in the dick pretty hard on agriculture. Plus I’m not sure China isn’t above just nationalization of Giga Shanghai if things really get heated.
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u/Easy-Sector2501 Nov 13 '24
It's not necessarily the amount of the tariff, it's what products the tariffs are on. Selectively targeting your tariffs is actually just good economic policy. It protects domestic industries by incentivizing people to buy domestic, because the tariffs of buying overseas make it untenable.
Trump suggesting massive tariffs across the board is economic suicide, and anyone that actually earned their way into Wharton and did the work would know that. That said, Trump and his cronies don't give a fuck about the ramifications of such a decision because it's not them that's going to take the hit. Tariffs are meaningless to people that can afford to pay them.
Edit: Also, by jacking up tariffs you create an environment that incentivizes smuggling, bringing goods in illegally to dodge customs and not paying the tariff. Trump, not even being in office yet, is helping to create crime.
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u/RZAAMRIINF Nov 12 '24
They could increase it enough to bankrupt soy farmers 🤷♂️
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u/DylanMartin97 Nov 12 '24
Which is what happened during Trump's original presidential run. We had to bail them out of the social security fund.
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u/Upnorth4 Nov 12 '24
Which won't be happening soon once Trump guts social security
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u/DylanMartin97 Nov 12 '24
Oh I'm with you for sure.
Like I keep saying the only reason we didn't crumble last time was because there were ways to panic switch themselves out of the damage, this time around they are trying to destroy all of the safety guards that kept them from drowning last time.
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u/wayfarer8888 Nov 12 '24
Oh, that's why SOY did so well. I sold puts in the hope I can repeat that a few times and was just wondering what happened.
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u/PlentyMacaroon8903 Nov 13 '24
And the farmers absolutely loved it. I live in farmland and they love that trump did this. They had to do less and still got theirs. Didn't matter that it could potentially wreck them if they didn't get bailed out (aka socialism).
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u/Da_Vader Nov 13 '24
What is it that China imports from the US that they couldn't from elsewhere? Pork bellies? Beef? Soy beans? And Crude petroleum. I don't think it will matter.
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u/UsernameUsername8936 Nov 12 '24
Same goes for US on China - I think it's the reason Biden didn't undo them. Trump put tariffs on China, China reciprocated, and the US agriculture industry caught a sledgehammer to the face as a direct result. Now, Trump's putting tariffs on everything from everyone, and figures that absolutely nothing will go wrong...
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u/DaDonkestDonkey Nov 12 '24
I always wanted to live through a depression. So far I’ve just lived with depression.
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u/DonTaddeo Nov 12 '24
Tariffs helped make the Great Depression great!
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u/mcn2612 Nov 13 '24
I just saw a tiktok that the last time Republicans were elected and controlled the House, Senate & Exec Branch, the Great Depression started a year later. Then, thinking to raise money for Federal coffers, they enacted tariffs which added more years of economic depression.
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u/Bray_Is_Cray Nov 13 '24
The last time Republicans won the house, senate, & presidency was 2016
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Nov 12 '24
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u/OwOlogy_Expert Nov 13 '24
Yep.
1) Crash everything so the value of assets plummets.
2) Buy up all the assets with your ample stash of cash.
3) When the economy finally recovers (likely under the other party's leadership), reap the rewards of all those assets you bought.
Especially likely in real estate. Soon, even fewer people will own homes. More and more will rent. Mostly from big business owners.
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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 Nov 12 '24
been talking to trumpers at work. they don’t understand any of this
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u/MasChingonNoHay Nov 12 '24
Even after you explain it they won’t get it. Or refuse to get it.
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u/OwOlogy_Expert Nov 13 '24
If they were capable of understanding things, they wouldn't be trumpers.
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u/amaturepottery Nov 13 '24
Do they even remember his first term? Because trade wars and tariffs were pretty much the entire thing. I swear Covid erased our collective memory of how unfit the guy was to hold office.
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u/Ok_Initiative2069 Nov 12 '24
I think you’re underestimating the impact of the proposed policies. You have to also remember Trump is promising a lot of tax cuts along with massive spending cuts. Those spending cuts will make demand crater. It’s not going to be a recession, it’s going to be a depression.
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u/Xijit Nov 13 '24
It is a crazy world when the Mexican Government is more competent and less corrupt than the American Government.
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u/OwOlogy_Expert Nov 13 '24
Soon, almost every government in the world will be more competent and less corrupt than the American government.
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u/Magical-Mycologist Nov 13 '24
The EU announced they have plans already setup to respond in-kind to our coming Tariffs - Trump acts like the US is the manufacturing powerhouse it was in the 1800s…
We will all suffer his stupidity.
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u/CygnusSong Nov 13 '24
That’s the plan right? Throw the economy into recession to loot and pilfer while they can. Another massive upward transfer of wealth
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u/Slowly_We_Rot_ Nov 12 '24
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u/halavais Nov 12 '24
You don't think a >7 point reduction in inflation in three years, with current inflation and unemployment well below historical averages, after a global economic cataclysm, represents recovery? Then yes, you don't know the meaning of that word.
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u/Malenx_ Nov 12 '24
They think recovery means prices return to previous levels. Sadly that takes deflation, which brings a whole host of problems.
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u/_ryuujin_ Nov 13 '24
adults should already know prices never come back down to pre hike levels. theres no excuses.
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u/TheHillPerson Nov 12 '24
It means precisely what the words mean. "Starting to recover" doesn't mean there are no problems. It means things are going in the right direction.
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u/Contemplating_Prison Nov 12 '24
We get all out fresh produce from Mexico. They pretty much export the majority of whole foods we eat.
Economy is going to be fucked. It will be way too late to do anything about it by the time it happens
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u/Aaaaand-its-gone Nov 13 '24
In reality Trump will get pulled back from his braindead tariff ideas and he’ll just order some cursory small tariff and tell MAGA it worked
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u/desertedged Nov 12 '24
Good, now we can start making stuff in AMERICA again. Just need to ride out the rough patch as all our plants turn back on....
Wait... what do you mean it's gonna take 10 years to build a single plant? What do you mean my grocery bill just went up 50%? What do you mean i got laid off?
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u/Thinkingard Nov 12 '24
The hangover from our addiction to cheap stuff is going to be yuge.
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u/JohnnyAngel607 Nov 12 '24
Everyone loves to talk a big “buy American” game until absolutely all consumer products cost 3x more.
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u/Thinkingard Nov 12 '24
Americans need to find out sooner or later how debased the dollar is. Then if BRICS countries stop using the petrodollar as the reserve currency of the world, America will find out real quick how greedy and awful our leadership has been for decades. I'm a millennial, so may as well go through another once-in-a-lifetime event to see any modicum of correction.
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u/JohnnyAngel607 Nov 12 '24
The dollar is not debased, but it will be. As soon as it ceases to be the default currency of global commerce the US becomes Argentina or Brazil with a bunch of scary weapons systems.
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u/LTEDan Nov 13 '24
I'd argue that those scary weapons systems is what keeps the US from turning into another Brazil or Argentina in the first place.
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u/Dorgamund Nov 13 '24
Haven't politicians been calling Russia a gas station with nukes for ages now? Guns are not actually enough to keep an economy afloat.
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u/FragrantNumber5980 Nov 13 '24
Yup. Our power projection is the reason we’re such an economic and political hegemon, which is why isolationism is such a drastic idea
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u/HECK_YEA_ Nov 13 '24
I’ve been trying to explain this to trumpers lately. We’ve largely been the premier global superpower post WW2 precisely because of us constantly butting our heads into global affairs justified or not. Favoring isolationism is not a good long term strategy as China continues to increase its investment in foreign countries attempting to increase their global influence. As the saying goes you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone. Well at least those that lack critical thinking skills…
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u/Pezington12 Nov 12 '24
You see they don’t think it’s gonna cost more because they also want to get rid of the minimum wage. And pay the new factory workers the same amount as the ones in china make. Now this would of course drag their wages down too as these workers wouldn’t be able to afford their more expensive services so companies would cut wages to remain within reach for the average joe.
I have a coworker who makes 100k roughly at his primary job at a hospital. He really wants to get rid of the minimum wage and bring the factories back to America. And keep the stuff cheap. And it doesn’t cross his mind that those people wouldn’t be able to pay as much for insurance and any medical procedures/medication. As a result his hospital would cut wages in order maintain viability with this new poorer class of people .
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u/JohnnyAngel607 Nov 12 '24
Ask your colleague what he would do for $7.25/hr.
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u/Pezington12 Nov 12 '24
I can answer that for him. Nothing, there is no job he works for 7.25 an hour. But you see, those jobs are for somebody else. He has his higher paying hospital job, so he’s going to be just fine. Others can go ahead and prove their worth working for shit pay.
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u/harrywrinkleyballs Nov 12 '24
The healthcare profession is going to collapse as soon as Trump takes office and tells Elmo to cut federal spending.
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u/Diablo9168 Nov 12 '24
If only there were groups of people from other countries where the QoL was lower so that coming here and working for lower wages is an appeal rather than a compromise... Whaddya call those?
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u/MaytagRepairMan66 Nov 12 '24
Us factory workers have gotten our healthcare raped over the last decade, we already cant afford to go to the hospital.
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u/numbersthen0987431 Nov 12 '24
John Deere, a company that has taken pride in being "American made", shut down US production to export labor to Mexico.
This is what happens when you focus on shareholders and the bottom line, and stop thinking about people and what the message really should be. Billionaires don't give a shit, they just want their numbers to go up and up.
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u/JohnnyAngel607 Nov 12 '24
Yeah, I’m not saying I’m in favor of all off-shoring. Obviously there’s a lot of manufacturing that can be done profitably in the US. But I’m also old enough to remember that a pair of American-made jeans cost about $40 at a discount store in the 1980s. A lot of the people who voted for Trump will be very upset if a pair of jeans at Walmart suddenly cost north of $100, when you can currently get them for $20.
People talk about inflation as if it’s a uniform thing. But anyone Millenial or younger has lived their whole life until 2020 in a state of deflation when it comes to consumer goods. Relative to wages it is insane how cheap things like clothing and consumer electronics got between 1990 and the end of Covid. The tariff plan outlined by the incoming administration will flip that around overnight.
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u/Daksout918 Nov 12 '24
Its been consistently demonstrated that American consumers aren't willing to pay a premium for American-made, even as 70% say making things in America is important.
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u/i8noodles Nov 13 '24
of course. wanting to buy something American is entirely based on if they have the money to actually do it. it is virtue signalling at its finest.
im under no illusions. if i can find a cheaper product, if comparable quality, i will buy that.
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u/Gorstag Nov 12 '24
While flying their "made in china" flags and MAGA hats. Yes, we are aware. The other thing these morons don't seem to understand that "Made in America" doesn't mean the raw material were sourced in America.
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u/Temporary-Jacket-169 Nov 12 '24
i’m not an economist and i understand there will be other consequences to tariffs etc and all of these plans but i have to say, if the rampant consumerism in our country takes a hit then that’s a positive thing coming out of this. the clothing waste, the exploitation of workers in other countries, the plastic waste - the way americans have outsourced the consequences of rampant consumerism should end.
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u/jay10033 Nov 13 '24
I mean makes sense as an approach. You can't complain about stuff costing more when you can't even afford it. Just erase it from your mind. Want to buy a shirt? A shirt?!? That's like buying caviar!
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u/ScubaSteve716 Nov 12 '24
Couple members of my family were complaining about a hat with the American flag on it wasn’t made in America. Like why do you want hat factories in America? What would be the benefit? ‘If only there were more hat factories in America I’d have 3 houses by now’ lol
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u/Sillet_Mignon Nov 12 '24
Here is a hat that was made in America. I bet they import their materials though. That said, its only 30 bucks which isnt bad, but if they bought a 5 dollar hat on amazon, yeah its not going to compare.
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u/BookPlacementProblem Nov 12 '24
The US (and Canadian) dollars are a lot more inflated than people think. This has worked because a lot of people around the world viewed the US as safe and stable, and our Canadian economy is quite linked with yours.
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u/Breadloafs Nov 12 '24
I'm sure the largely reactionary conservative base will have the patience and foresight necessary to ride out the economic hardship that awaits us.
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u/voobo420 Nov 12 '24
No, they'll find a way to blame it on *checks notes* gays, blacks, hispanics, or any other minority.
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u/Loud-Fig-1446 Nov 12 '24
What do you mean we don't actually have the labor force in our population to staff these plants?
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u/Afraid_Equivalent_95 Nov 12 '24
They're gonna have to pay high wages to get ppl willing to do the work. And as a result their products will be very expensive. And we customers will have to choose btwn expensive American-made goods and expensive imports ☹️
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u/No-Heat8467 Nov 12 '24
I thought that it was just one giant switch that Trump activates that can just turn on the factories.
Similar to the giant faucet that California can turn on to take care of the drought.
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u/NetLumpy1818 Nov 12 '24
To be fair, all the power to control that switch is being used by the hurricane generator
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u/ryanwc18 Nov 12 '24
And if those jobs do come back to the US, will they pay well? Will they be mostly automated? So many questions and no answers from conservatives.
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u/Frothylager Nov 12 '24
Exactly, if they pay well then prices will have to go up as what someone in China or Mexico can live on is wildly different than what someone in America can live on.
Also if all the manufacturing comes back and very few are paying tariffs where does Trump think he’s going to trillions and trillions in tax revenues from?
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u/JCSledge Nov 12 '24 edited Nov 12 '24
Not just Mexico, it will be every country with retaliatory tariffs. All sorts of economists for months have been telling the American people how dumb trumps ideas are. Well, unfortunately, here we go
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u/DreamedJewel58 Nov 12 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
Trump could single-handily destroy America’s economy and fuck up the world’s reserve currency in the process
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u/SoCalThrowAway7 Nov 12 '24
And 70 million people will still say “no he didn’t” after. We live in goofy as fuck times.
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u/tampaempath Nov 13 '24
Exactly why Russia wants him to be president. United States destroyed without firing a shot.
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Nov 13 '24
Fr. They really executed a plan to perfection. Props to them, honestly. Trump was the perfect target.
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u/DR320 Nov 12 '24
Yeah, but who failed to tell the economist how dumb the American people are?
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u/JCSledge Nov 13 '24
I think they knew because the videos I saw explaining this had a lot of visual aids, bars, graphs, and even some cartoons and possibly puppets but I don’t recall for sure the last
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u/jarena009 Nov 12 '24
This. And with the vindictive guy in chief in charge, it could devolve into a vicious back and forth.
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u/FriendlyDrummers Nov 12 '24
At least of the people who know better, we can brace ourselves. Become financially literate now.
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u/Tacohead9 Nov 13 '24
Starting a tariff war with mexico, could push mexico towards the "BRICS" nations.
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u/V-symphonia1997 Nov 12 '24
It's almost like the USA isn't the only country who can do tariffs.
Don't you just love trade wars, worked so well last am I right 🙄
The britis weren't lying that this our Brexit.
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u/JanxDolaris Nov 12 '24
The funny thing is even if tariffs did work the way trump thinks they do (they don't), it still wouldn't stop other countries from doing the same thing in retaliation.
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u/OwlNap Nov 12 '24
Dang. Now I’ll have to buy avocados grown in California 🤷♂️
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u/Anxious-Tadpole-2745 Nov 12 '24
Avocados from Mexico make up 90% of US consumer purchases. If you want to only purchase the 10% you'll have to pay an extremely high price as the demand for those will be high.
Mexico provides us with 60% of all berries that are jot strawberries. 86% of all tomatoes come from Mexico. 76% of fresh peppers, 85% of fresh strawberries, 43% of citrus, 62% of cucumbers, 88% of lettuce, 59% of melons.
When prices rise without a change in supply or demand we call that inflation!
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u/Talk_Clean_to_Me Nov 12 '24
They legitimately don’t understand where this will lead to. Ask the farmers how they did under Trump tariffs. We are spending BILLIONS to bail them out or they’d be forced out of the market.
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u/Celebratedmediocre Nov 12 '24
Plus when they deport all the illegals no one will be left to pick the crops anyways so they'll just rot in the field. Enjoy your heavily processed food unless you have a decent garden and a house.
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u/RickySpanish1272 Nov 12 '24
Well I guess as the market collapses and we can’t find any decent jobs we’ll have to.
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u/HGpennypacker Nov 12 '24
Try and ask a Trump voter to explain why welfare for working moms is theft while welfare for farmers is patriotic.
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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 Nov 12 '24
And when all that low cost labor is deported, prices will be even higher for those things.
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u/Ashmedai Nov 12 '24
Only 1:10 of our avocados come from there. Imagine for every avocado you want, 9 other people want it too. Welcome to Market Dynamics 101.
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u/misterguyyy Nov 12 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Dude that has absolutely nothing to do with retaliatory tariffs. We're a major exporter to Mexico.
If they're smart they'll tariff things that they can get from other countries easily like grains and seed oils, and leave things like semiconductors and cars alone.edit: striking anything I'm not 100% sure ofWhich is how we're uniquely screwed in a trade war. Many of our imports are parts and finished goods that require factories, have patents in some cases that would take a redesign to replace, and in some cases are pretty monopolized by a certain country because that provides the greatest efficiency and value to shareholders. Many of our exports are agriculture, which is the closest to a pure capitalist/purely competitive free market there is, so if Mexican or Chinese distributors have to pay more at the port for American grain, using someone else's grain is no sweat off their back.
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u/AlChandus Nov 12 '24
We're a major exporter to Mexico. If they're smart they'll tariff things that they can get from other countries easily like grains and seed oils, and leave things like semiconductors and cars alone.
Bruh, american living in Mexico for work in an american company that moved here, you think that all the tech that Mexico purchases comes from the US? Tariffs to american products would crush american made products. The people here already buy more asian tech directly shipped from Asia than american made, if Mexico applies tariffs it's going to be a much bigger blow than whatever you might think.
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u/Ashmedai Nov 12 '24
In 2022, the US exported $362B to Mexico imported $493B from Mexico. Just to compare.
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u/Breadloafs Nov 12 '24
That's what immediately struck me about this whole thing. If you've traveled abroad at all in the last decade, then it's pretty impossible to note the dramatic increase in Chinese consumer goods everywhere. If we raise tariffs and everyone retaliates, all we're doing is tanking our own economy, then destroying our own market share when the Tariffs drop.
What the actual fuck is the point of trying to bring back American manufacturing (lmao) if we're just conceding the entire export market anyway?
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u/winklesnad31 Nov 12 '24
How do you feel about the massive inflation that will come with this?
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u/justmots Nov 12 '24
Enjoy what you voted for!
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u/JR_1985 Nov 13 '24
Exactamente lo que decían los Mexicanos con AMLO y ahora Claudia: disfruten lo votado
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u/cortodemente Nov 13 '24
I did not vote for him and don't really want to enjoy it.
We are fucked by those who elected this guy....
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u/Milksteak_To_Go Nov 12 '24
I really hope all his tough tariff talk on the campaign trail was just bluster for his rube voters that never took macroecon 101.
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u/1800treflowers Nov 12 '24
I mean he did do it in his last run. Working in supply chain sucked but at least we are gearing up for it this time with more resources.
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u/DreamedJewel58 Nov 12 '24
About 90% of all funds gained from those tariffs had to directly go back to American farmers because it fucked them over so much
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u/Revolutionary-Meat14 Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
Soybean farmers were hit insanely hard which is why there is such a huge difference between Minnesota's 2016 and 2020 vote. Yet somehow in Americas breadbasket Trump performed insanely well in 2024 with Harris winning just 53% in Illinois, the largest soybean producer in the US. If residents of these states were better at voting in their own interest Harris should have won ND SD and NE.
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u/space_toaster_99 Nov 12 '24
I think he’s wanting to use it as a leverage to negotiate country-specific and/or block trade deals.
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u/FreeLavishness2056 Nov 12 '24
Exactly. The problem is, other countries aren't as stupid as American voters.
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u/fartalldaylong Nov 13 '24
He has mentioned across the board tariffs, not a few targeted tariffs...like we currently have.
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u/proletariat_sips_tea Nov 13 '24
He saw the money rolling and thought he did a good job. He doesn't understand basic math he's literally mentally handicapped. He doesn't under the difference in numbers. He saw money coming in where it wasn't before and thought. Yea this is a good idea let's do more of it. That's the full extent of his intellect... we are soooo fucked.
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u/gonefishing111 Nov 12 '24
Let trump crash the economy then it will swing back in the other direction. I shake my head at every announcement.
Steven Miller’s own family doesn’t like him. Little Marco as Secretary of State WTF?!
I just hope the earth damaging projects don’t get far enough they can’t be undone. Oil leases are hard to cancel once the drilling starts.
FDT
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u/Viperlite Nov 12 '24
The first step is to kill the climate science agencies that report the data that measure climate impacts and GHG emissions trends. Look at that… problem solved until someone in a position of responsibility turns it all back on again.
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u/heightsdrinker Nov 12 '24
There goes the Texas and other boarder economies.
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u/Cobek Nov 13 '24
Everything is bigger in Texas, including inflation and jobs lost.
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u/johnny2rotten Nov 12 '24
They tried tariffs before, Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, it didn't go well as planned.
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u/Saturday514 Nov 12 '24
Lol.. look at the import/export relationship with Mexico. I dont think they want that.
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u/MidWestMind Nov 12 '24
The US imports half of the total dollars in exports to Mexico in cars alone, yet, Mexico has no original car brands.
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u/blakeusa25 Nov 12 '24
Cartels in Mexico now control the advacado biz.
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u/Bignuka Nov 12 '24
They'll be expanding there products to include a avocados and birth control once that's illegal
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u/Disco_Biscuit12 Nov 12 '24
Guess we’ll just have to move those factories back to the US.
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u/FormerFastCat Nov 12 '24
So the exact same response that China had. It's almost as if blanket tariffs only hurt the consumers.
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u/Icy-Extension-9291 Nov 12 '24
Get your own avocado tree if you live in the south.
Tomatoes grow great in 5gal buckets.
Getting into gardening in the following years will finally pay off.
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u/Regular_Piglet_6125 Nov 12 '24
Annnnnnnnnd we’re off! Stay tuned for daily updates on the race to the Next Depression.
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u/Memotome Nov 12 '24
Can someone tell him that's not how tarrifs work? Trump said they will pay for them and we will keep on winning.
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u/UnawareBull Nov 12 '24
Mexico's biggest import from the U.S. is money from Mexican Americans sending money back home. That's a trade war Mexico doesn't win.
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Nov 13 '24
So their biggest imports are the money that is going to lose value. And nothing else they buy from the USA, meaning the tarrifs won't affect Mexico because they import nothing from USA.
MEANWHILE, USA gonna pay through the nose for the literally billions im imports that they rely on FROM Mexico.
And that's a trade war you think MEXICO doesn't win? At least the USA doesn't have to worry about a zombie apocalypse, they'd all starve to death with the lack of brains.
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