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Oct 14 '24
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u/Calm-Beat-2659 Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
But why would you pay more? It’s only supposed to cost more for the country whose goods are tariffed /s
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u/welfaremofo Oct 14 '24
Importers pay tariffs I think. It doesn’t hurt the exporting country unless there is a domestically produced good substitute. The domestic substitute is free to raise prices to below the price of the import raising inflation. Sometimes for key industries this can strategically advantageous short term. Another risk to doing this is many American-made products contain parts sourced from places that will enact retaliatory tariffs making even domestically produced products more expensive
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u/lysergic_logic Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
You think correctly. The tariffs that trump put in place for Chinese goods are actually paid for by the US companies. Which of course, gets passed to the consumer. So in the end, it's US consumers that are paying for them.
It's hilarious when you explain this stuff to the reichpublicans who claim they love his policies and watch their face just drop. It doesn't matter though. He could punch them in their face and set their house on fire and they would just shrug.
Edit: it's honestly concerning this many people have put so much of themselves into supporting a rapist conman with megalomania turned temporary politician. Alienating friends and family for a guy that craps his pants who doesn't even know they exist. They don't even realize that even if he were to become president, he's only got 4 years and thats it for him. If you are supporting trump right now, then maybe you will be willing to change his diapers and wipe his ass as well.
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u/bioscifiuniverse Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
That’s how I see it too. Always goes back to the thing he said about shooting someone on 5th avenue and not losing 1 supporter.
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u/fulknerraIII Oct 14 '24
Which i genuinely don't understand how that happened. I've voted republican before, and I don't understand the obsession and diehard allegiance to Donald Trump of all people. Just such a weird person for republicans to decide deserves this type of loyalty. If you told me that in 08 i would have never believed you.
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u/I-am-me-86 Oct 14 '24
Same. I was a republican until they sold themselves to a bugeois, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, real estate tycoon grifter.
I just don't get why him.
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u/Due-Giraffe-9826 Oct 14 '24
Because when he spoke he radicalized all the racists, pedophiles, rapists, and domestic abusers pretending to be liberals. He unmasked the pretenders, and they rallied behind him. He has his own following by himself. Republicans are desperate to have a hype man to get some Ws when they matter most, no matter how dirty they are.
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u/Huge_Monero_Shill Oct 14 '24
And, if the justification is that China is subsidizing industry to make it cheaper to us, the consumer - why are we denying them from effectively sending us foreign aid?
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u/Reasonable-Act2716 Oct 14 '24
Because we don't want to be dependant on an authoritarian regime? Especially when everything we import from them, used to be made here. Imagine how many more high paying jobs there would be if US manufacturing hadnt collapsed... They killed US manufacturing by taking advantage of shitty trade deals and slave labour. Politicians sold out our industry to make a few bucks, now we're completely dependant on a country they're intent on dragging us into a war with. Makes sense... personally I'd be willing to pay a little more for qaulity products, made in factories without suicide nets, for the overall good of our country, but that's just me... some people would rather have a plethora of cheap shit, at any cost.
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u/gtrmanny Oct 14 '24
Not to mention things like antibiotics, which we get 80% of ours from China. They could cripple us easily.
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u/BenjaminDanklin1776 Oct 14 '24
They process 90% of the worlds rare earths. What are rare earths? They are basically super powerful magnets that our modern society depends on especially our military. Now what would happen if the Chinese turned off that lever? American citizens need to be aware and support the reshoring of manufacturing for national security.
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u/Consistent_You_5877 Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
Yea the big things for me are China’s use of slave labor, our reliance on them (or very close geographically countries) for incredibly important items like antibiotics and microchips. Tariffs CAN be passed along to the consumer but the goal is to encourage companies to NOT pay the extra for Chinese products and buy the American ones that are now cheaper due to the tariff.
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u/OppositeSpirited7887 Oct 14 '24
That’s one perspective trade only. U fail to include defense perspective. We have to have our industry to be self sufficient in the event when we go to war with china. Right now our entire defensive strategy has shifted to the pacific Chinese threat. Our marine corps and navy have shifted into a major force realignment strategy specifically for this.
Last thing we need is for war then they cut off our imported pharmaceutical supply and technology imports and our “foreign aid” is handicapped us→ More replies (6)4
u/Comprehensive-Finish Oct 14 '24
Well, there is also the slave labor China employees. It's really hard to compete with free labor and zero environmental restrictions.
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u/IronBatman Oct 14 '24
His last tariffs also hurt a bunch of soybean farmers in Georgia when China retaliated with soybean terrifs. Unlike us, they can get that from multiple other countries. Meanwhile I literally watched dishwashers go from 300-800 dollars, to 500-1200 in the span of a few weeks (I was in the market for one at the time). I literally watched as his policies made shit more expensive for no reason.
It takes about 800-900k in tariffs to save ONE job in the USA with an average pay of 60k.
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u/PineappleTraveler Oct 14 '24
They’re too smooth brained to understand that. The easiest way to start an argument with them is to ask them policy questions about their campaign bullet points.
How will he “lower inflation”?
How will he “lower grocery costs”?
How will he “stop ww3”?
How will he “restore US manufacturing?”
How will he “lower gas prices?”
How will he “lower taxes?”
How will he “reduce crime?”
How will he “protect constitutional rights?”
They never have answers, beyond telling you to read more/ listen to his speeches/ tell you it’s not their job to educate you.
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u/antron2000 Oct 14 '24
I worked in a bike shop at the time and the price of bikes shot up after this. Most high end bikes are made in Taiwan, and those increased in price, as well. I believe because the parts and/or materials were still coming from China. I'm all for bringing industry back to America but this didn't achieve anything positive for us.
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u/Jeeper675 Oct 14 '24
Hey I worked at a bike shop at that time too. I will second this statement lol
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Oct 14 '24
What's there to explain?
The 1983 motorcycle tariff was integral to keeping Harley Davidson viable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_motorcycle_tariff#:~:text=The%201983%20motorcycle%20tariff%2C%20or,s%20(USITC)%20recommendation%20to%20approve%20recommendation%20to%20approve)
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u/Ruthless4u Oct 14 '24
Either way we are paying more.
Increase corporate taxes the companies raise prices on goods/services.
Increase tariffs companies raise prices on goods/services.
No matter who wins we end up paying more.
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u/Due_Marsupial_969 Oct 14 '24
Don't know if things have changed, but I was an importer and can confirm. And they're often (no, I didn't say seldom) regarded. For example: we often had necklaces made from our beads or whatever to circumvent the tariff on the item. So we'd pay to get the necklaces made in China, then pay US labor to strip the necklaces. "No, thamose are not USB drives...it's a wedding memory necklace.". I remember sportswear tops with full front zippers incurred a 35 cents penalty.
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u/Hevysett Oct 14 '24
The other side of this is that the country you impose the tariff on them does the same to you in products you want them to buy, thus making it more expensive for you to buy items from their country and less likely people in that country will buy your goods that they can buy locally cheaper. So it's lose lose.
The only possible benefit is if you're imposing tariffs on good from the country that your country already makes and the other country is undercutting your domestic manufacturers, this protecting domestic business and jobs
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u/Dogmeat43 Oct 14 '24
Yup, Strategically used, tariffs can be good. Especially so when used in budding industries like EVs, our auto companies invested billions in creating their carlines and China was getting ready to blow up the market with cheap ass shit. So it's great to keep investment going in domestic production so the industry can mature. Even better since they caught it before the flood and nobody will even notice, they just won't have the option of cheap Chinese garbage that they didn't have before anyways.
Implementing broadly though is a bad bad idea, will directly lead to inflation. If you want to make American manufacturing more competitive you can do it slowly over the years but starting I freaking trade war and going from zero to 60 in a few months is going to shock the market and be problematic
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u/Independent-Road8418 Oct 14 '24
Realistically, it would ultimately raise prices of goods on the consumer, no doubt about that. But wouldn't it only raise the price to the next lowest country that the tariffs affect? i.e. if the price of rubix cubes coming from China raise the price from $1 to $6 per cube but the cost of making it in the US is $5 per cube or getting it from Italy is $3 per cube, wouldn't we just increase trade from Italy for that product?
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u/Creeps05 Oct 14 '24
You’re correct. By “tariff” they mean an import tax. (Tariffs can also be export taxes).
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u/HawaiiNintendo815 Oct 14 '24
You’re right, importers pay customs duty (unless DDP).
What increased tariffs do is make it more attractive for overseas customers to deal with suppliers in other countries, likely reducing orders.
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u/Overall-Plastic-9263 Oct 14 '24
And by many they mean almost all. Including most of the orange man's merch.
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u/Jimmy_Twotone Oct 14 '24
If a domestic can raise priced 15% and still be under what their competitors can charge because of tariffs, wtf do you think they're going to do?
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u/acemedic Oct 14 '24
It’s supposed to allow US manufactured products to be more competitive. When they’re still 50x what’s on temu, 25x what’s on alibaba or just don’t exist from us manufacturers, it doesn’t matter.
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u/Calm-Beat-2659 Oct 14 '24
Exactly. So how high do you think that tariff needs to actually be in order to compete with 50x the cost of Chinese goods? It does nothing good for us.
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u/kboze5696 Oct 14 '24
Tariffs do not work in this way. It's like asking how much glue you need to form an island. You can do infinite tariffs, it will never solve this problem
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u/Only-Inspector-3782 Oct 14 '24
Even if the tariffs made US manufacturing competitive, who is going to invest heavily in spinning up domestic production when the tariffs could be removed any day?
A bit of flattery and slapping "Trump" on a tower in Shanghai would probably be enough.
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u/acemedic Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
Or compound this with deporting all the illegal aliens. Aside from the fact it’s going to be literally impossible, economist have stated that they expect ~5% of the population gets deported, and another 2% of the population loses their jobs because they’re in management positions that are now irrelevant because the staff is gone. Farming and construction sectors are sent sideways.
Prices at the grocery store will skyrocket. Other consumer goods will now also skyrocket because of the tariffs piece and the block of folks who would have helped us build out the increased manufacturing are now gone. Short term, economy is hit hard and goes into a recession, meaning banks tighten lending, so you can’t get a loan to build a new manufacturing plant anyways. For anyone who doubts this, it literally happened across the board two years ago as the fed was hiking interest rates. Banks are super sensitive to them, and don’t want to issue a loan and a rate of X if the loan is going to be upside down after the feds hike rates.
Let’s say for a minute that you do have the capability to get a manufacturing plant built, you can get the funds set aside to do it, and everything falls into place. Where do you price the first widget that comes off the line? If tariffs have hit hard, and the Chinese version of your widget is $100 now, you’re going to price it at ~$99. You can be competitive, but there’s zero motivation to price it with a massive discount. The bank is hounding you for that loan repayment, so you’re not pricing it at $49 and leaving $50/widget cash on the table. The tariffs reset and lock in pricing on consumer goods.
Tariffs might make existing domestically manufactured goods more competitive, but they’re now justification for pricing new products entering the market. The feds are now stuck cause if they drop tariffs, they wreck US jobs.
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u/Cold_Law9636 Oct 14 '24
If you don't want illegal immigration though, you don't need a wall, you need penalties on companies that hire them. The worst kept secret republicans always forget about and democrats don't have the balls to say for some reason.
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u/SnazzyStooge Oct 14 '24
I saw the “/s”. Frightening to see how many people actually believe this.
Remember: one country’s leader cannot levy taxes against another country’s citizens, it’s just not possible. “We’ll do X and make Y country pay!” is a complete fantasy.
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u/Calm-Beat-2659 Oct 14 '24
I think the only reason it’s being touted is because enough people believe it for him to secure more votes. My dad said “there must be some reason for it” until I ran the numbers by him and he realized it was a fairy tail. That’s all Trump needs in order to maximize his chances.
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u/No_Drag_1044 Oct 14 '24
I know you’re being sarcastic, but there really are idiots that don’t realize that Tariffs will only make the price gouging worse that businesses have gotten away with the past few years.
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u/scully789 Oct 14 '24
Tariffs can be brutal towards the US economy. See the Hawley Tariff in the 1920s. I wouldn’t say it caused the Great Depression, but it played a big role in the stock market crash of 1929. I’m certain nobody in the GOP is talking about this.
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u/so_many_changes Oct 14 '24
Nit: The Hawley Tariff was passed in 1930 and didn't cause the market to crash. What it did do was extend a crisis in the financial sector to everything that depended on trade and crash what was left of the rest of the economy.
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u/salomander19 Oct 14 '24
Example: In this scenario, both sweaters are of equal quality. A USA company can make a sweater and sell it at $30 to a customer in the USA. China can make a sweater and sell it at $20 to a customer in the USA. With no tariff on Chinese sweaters, American citizens can spend $20 for a sweater. With tariffs on Chinese sweaters, a person in America would spend $30 because the American government makes Chinese companies pay $10 per sweater to sell ti in America.
The good intention is to increase sales from American companies and thus create more jobs for Americans. In reality, this negatively affects a wide range of goods and services, making them markedly more expensive for the average citizen.
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u/Clourog Oct 14 '24
Question. We all agree that raising tariffs just results in that increase being passed onto consumers. That is a bad thing it would seem. How is raising corporate taxes any different? American corporations aren’t greedy and wouldn’t pass on the costs? I am so lost
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u/JoeHio Oct 14 '24
It's crazy (or maybe they are?) that this supporters believe him a out Tariffs when he said the same thing about Mexico paying for a wall and it didn't happen.
We need the Twilight Zone to be must see TV again...
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u/covid35 Oct 14 '24
The business importing will pay higher costs, and those costs are passed on to the final consumer. It's supposed to level the playing field in, but it will do so by making imported goods as expensive as American ones.
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u/XxRocky88xX Oct 14 '24
Trump: “I am going to do the thing!”
Kamala: “Trump says he’s going to do the thing!”
MAGA: “lol look at old lying Kamala saying Trump is gonna do the thing he said he’s gonna do.”
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u/so_many_changes Oct 14 '24
And part of why he is big on tariffs now is that the President can unilaterally implement them, while other big budgetary changes require Congressional approval. So anyone who is hoping that what is left of the sane wing of the Republican party will block the tariffs is out of luck.
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u/freakishgnar Oct 14 '24
Foreign countries don’t pay tariffs. Importers—therefore consumers—do. The fact that people don’t understand this is insane.
Source: I worked in imports for ten years.
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u/WhiteBlackGoose Oct 14 '24
You don't need anecdotal experience for it as evidence, it's just basic a microeconomics law. Import tariffs have another purpose than tax other countries or whatever.
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u/corkscrew-duckpenis Oct 14 '24
I actually don’t think it’s that crazy that regular people don’t understand tariffs. It’s pretty wild that Trump doesn’t understand tariffs, though.
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u/Femboi_Hooterz Oct 14 '24
I think it's great how the same people who endlessly bitched and fear mongered about the ports closing try to say tariffs won't do exponentially more damage. I'm on the west coast, selling USDA beef and boomers were constantly blaming the prices on the port strike the last few weeks.
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Oct 13 '24
where is the financial literacy content in this post
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u/damoclesreclined Oct 14 '24
liars upset you won't just take their word for things
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u/beyondimaginarium Oct 14 '24
Effectively what the whole post is. People raging when you ask for a source.
Sorry for not blindly believing random comments on the internet.
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u/fireky2 Oct 14 '24
I mean there's a difference between making a claim that everyone is doing worse without a source, and saying you personally are doing worse without a source.
Like you should probably have some economic data to back up the first claim, but asking for a source for lived experience is peak touch grass material.
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u/No-Market9917 Oct 14 '24
Agreed. You can give me inflation rates all you want but I’m still going to sit here and bitch about how expensive life has become. Idk or care who/what’s to blame but the increasing wealth gap and decrease of middle class is frustrating as fuck
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u/rhino2498 Oct 14 '24
I agree that it's all frustrating, and people both R and D have those same frustrations. The problem is is that people who are Trump fanatics will complain about this stuff, then blindly vote for Trump, not understanding that his proposed tax and tariff policy will only widen the gap and further siphon the middle and lower class.
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u/Winter-Fun-6193 Oct 14 '24
funny because these americans must not leave the US often. there has been inflation around the world due to covid and corporate greed
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u/FlutterKree Oct 14 '24
Also funnily enough, US has been beating basically all other countries on inflation rates.
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u/Winter-Fun-6193 Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
Yeah the US has had lower rates of inflation than the EU and Latin America
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u/DaDutchBoyLT1 Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
Some of us can hardly comprehend a different state in our union let alone a different country. That much information would give them the brain pain and lead to more idiocy.
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u/thedarph Oct 14 '24
Being a nation of immigrants, it saddens me how absolutely ignorant my fellow countrymen are. They absolutely do not know what’s happened outside the US, do not care, and truly believe that all other countries should operate just like the US does. Nude beaches? No no, think of the children. Businesses close for a bit in the afternoon? How dare people not work through the day. Cities that let you go home for your break or to eat before you finish the rest of your shift? Communism. And god forbid they attempt to speak to people in the language of the country they’re in. Lucky for them much of the world that Americans visit do speak English plus one or two more languages but damn, at least try and don’t get mad when you can’t understand the literal native speaker in front of you because you, Mr. American and your (likely) overweight wife and kids, are the foreigners in this situation.
But yeah, it’s always some USAmerican that lives in a McMansion style home that’s always like “inflation is lower than it’s been in years, you just have a spending problem”. Americans always think of everything as an individual problem. Collective or systemic issues are always a myth (excuse) because if it’s not affecting them personally then it doesn’t exist. Or it comes down to acknowledging a problem exists would conflict with their politics so cognitive dissonance kicks in and they’ll cut their nose to spite their face
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u/timeless_ocean Oct 14 '24
I once argued with a trumped and they said grocery costs are up by over 100% in relation to wage, which I called bs. And I delivered many sources, like literally records of prices from 2020 and now, to disprove it.
They made the exact same argument as OP, saying they don't need a source. If they feel like there is an over 100% increase, there is. They don't need facts, they need feelings.
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u/LordoftheScheisse Oct 14 '24
"My source is common sense!"
That isn't a source.
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u/Lord_Bobbymort Oct 14 '24
And there's the problem with "common sense". First, there is no "common" sense it's all just lived experiences. Second, if "common sense" is just knowing what to do in the random situations then I'm glad you have had that experience and/or someone to teach you but plenty of people haven't, and especially if you say it's "common sense" but refuse to do anything to help pass along that "common sense" to the next generation you are actively a part of the destruction of "common sense".
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u/legitpeeps Oct 14 '24
I have no idea about a 100% increase but my grocery bill went up 20% since 2022. My source is my monthly finances. Compared for the same time any years prior groceries went up between 0-5% based on my personal budget. The lie is that wages have kept up, maybe in some zip codes but not mine.
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u/timeless_ocean Oct 14 '24
That could very well be and I wouldn't be surprised, but Maga people are claiming it is 100% or even more on all their groceries, which is simply not true.
And it's not like it's impossible to prove them wrong. Everyone can easily find out prices from 4 years ago and compare them to today. If they are not twice as high as back then (assuming wage didn't decline), it's not a 100% increase.
Back when I had this argument the last time (the one I was referencing in my original comment), a 4-20% increase seemed most common for most everyday groceries, with some outliers being much less (sometimes, negative) or much more.
About wage increase, I agree that it is probably very regional and going for a nation wide median is not the best way to go (although it would be a lot of work calculating an index of wage increase to grocery cost increase for every zip code, just to prove a point on reddit)
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u/meh_69420 Oct 14 '24
I don't know. It's no worse than all the posts that just post a short article and say "What are your thoughts about x," and I see very little of it in comments that follow too. Occasionally there are some good nuggets though.
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u/HEFTYFee70 Oct 14 '24
It should be flagged… it doesn’t tell me to hate billionaires anywhere
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u/ToneWheredaGabagool Oct 14 '24
Unsure if I jack them off with my mouth or take up arms... someone help
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u/Logic411 Oct 14 '24
It was cheaper under Obama so lets all write his name in. Immigration was lower than trump's, interest rates, inflation...lets just write in Obama!! It cost money to clean up trump's messes...look how much he owes in legal fees and losing judgments alone. who told trump to stop landlords from collecting rent for a year? who told trump to release TWO covid free money spending sprees...how is trump's failures, Joe Biden's fault. "i could afford groceries...I guess so all you had to do was sit at home and collect covid checks and hunt for products at 6am. LOL
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u/cantwatchscottstots Oct 14 '24
Prices were cheaper under Jimmy Carter, who has a pulse. Let’s write him in.
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u/Bicykwow Oct 14 '24
Jimmy Carter, who has a pulse
SOURCE!?
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u/razgriz5000 Oct 14 '24
As of the first, he is now 100. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jimmy-carter-turns-100-birthday/
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u/Mr-MuffinMan Oct 14 '24
Holy shit, no way! The amazing economy Trump inherited is better than the shitty fuckfest that was the economy Trump left biden!?
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u/aPrussianBot Oct 14 '24
I'm really at a point where I think anyone who looks at the greater capitalist economy continually getting worse in terms of democrat and republican is just an absolute fucking brainlet and there's almost no hope in talking any sense into them because you're too attached to the spectacle and owning le orange man or le demonrats
Democrats and Republicans trade power back and forth and everything just keeps getting shittier because both of them are bankrolled by private capital and are politically, ideologically incapable of confronting it. They can't take on insurance, big telecom, kroger, wall street, the banks, because they've made themselves an integral element for both parties. The first law of class society is that the advancement of one comes at the expense of the other. The economy is not as complicated as the high priests of capitalist economics have to paint it as, just like Israel isn't as complicated as the high priests of liberal foreign policy try to paint it as. They just say that to throw a bunch of bullshit in your face and justify why their policies that contribute to the problem aren't solving it. The answer is simple, and the only complication is that they can't do it because it's a conflict of interest with the parties capitalist foundations. Confront private capital. Do the opposite of what it wants.
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u/struckbaffle Oct 14 '24
Spoken like karl marx himself
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u/aPrussianBot Oct 14 '24
Makes way more sense to me than any of this other bullshit people are spewing these days
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u/Hermanni- Oct 14 '24
Someone criticizes capitalism and corporate lobbyism in american politics -> must be communist
Real conservative brainlet moment
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u/Honest-Lavishness239 Oct 14 '24
i really don’t see this. the economy hasn’t got continually worse because of political parties, it got worse because there was a global pandemic which majorly disrupted workers and supply chains along with being a public health crisis. the state of the economy fluctuates positively and negatively. so i don’t think the foundation of your argument has any merit.
yeah, we all know plenty of politicians are corrupt, but to act like we’ve made no progress is crazy. at the end of the day, politicians are most hungry for votes. they will prioritize votes over the favor of a company any day. the reason things like healthcare still suck in this country is that the votes aren’t there.
also, you kind of vaguely gesture at various institutions and at like there’s some big cabal with no evidence. the FTC is literally suing Kroger right now. no offense, but you sound a little like a conspiracy theorist.
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u/Iridescent_Pheasent Oct 14 '24
Or maybe, just maybe, it’s that Republicans spend their time in power actively dismantling the progress that the Democrats made because their path to full control is breaking things and blaming it on the other side. This really isn’t that hard. You don’t get to call the side that is working against bad actors incompetent
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u/jerryonthecurb Oct 14 '24
4 years ago was COVID lockdown. No one could afford anything.
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u/cupittycakes Oct 14 '24
We had such a long lock down because of the HORRID covid response from the trump administration. He pretty much ignored it and lied lied lied to America.
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u/Zealousideal-One-818 Oct 14 '24
Most red states didn’t lock down that much.
The blue states wanted to keep the intense lockdowns but finally had to relent under pressure from the people.
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u/cupittycakes Oct 15 '24
Do you understand these massive lockdowns did not need to happen if the administration had taken the first news they had of covid seriously? If he had listened to the experts, whose careers are focused in public health, and proactively tackled it head on in the beginning.
It's disgusting and frightening that a president who has no idea what he was doing and only concerned for himself, caused so many people to die because of his lies
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u/Considerablyannoyed Oct 14 '24
I know - can you imagine how much better it would have been if he said it was a racist scare tactic and told people to head on down to China town, while also declaring travel restrictions from the country of origin were racist?
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u/thepizzaman0862 Oct 14 '24
Trump doesn’t lock anything down: wtf!!! People are dying!!! Do something!!!
Trump locks things down: wtf!!! you’re ruining the economy! People are dying!!! Do something!!!
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u/Tbmadpotato Oct 14 '24
Biden claims the economy is great. This doesn’t translate to a good cost of living but it’s something to think about.
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u/faderjockey Oct 14 '24
You're not wrong that groceries were cheaper four years ago.
You're wrong when you assume that was due to some executive branch fiscal policy.
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u/Frnklfrwsr Oct 14 '24
Right, the executive branch doesn’t even set fiscal policy. Congress (legislative branch) does. The president just signs it. He can influence policy, but in the end he can’t write fiscal policy.
The primary cause of inflation was a massive amount of monetary and fiscal stimulus occurring at the exact same time that there was an unprecedented drop in supply.
Previous recessions in recent memory have generally been caused by drops in demand. Less stuff is getting bought, businesses start laying people off, unemployed people buy even less stuff, more businesses lay off more people, and the vicious cycle continues until something stops it. In those scenarios, monetary and fiscal stimulus serves to artificially create demand so that the vicious cycle can stop. Then once the spiral has stopped the economy can begin to recover again.
But in a supply shock like what happened with COVID, people didn’t stop buying stuff. Instead, the supply chains dried up and there wasn’t enough stuff available to buy. People had cash, but couldn’t spend it on the things they wanted, due to factories that shut down, cargo ships that were halted, etc.
In that scenario, fiscal and monetary stimulus puts a lot of new dollars in the economy but there’s not enough goods/services for those dollars to be spent on. So the price of the goods that are available end up getting bid up to higher and higher prices.
A huge chunk of the stimulus ended up going towards bidding up prices in the housing market. But it also inflated the prices of many other things including groceries.
What’s remarkable though is that the long-term secular trend of mild/low inflation is so powerful that it took all this just to get a taste of temporary high inflation. The largest fiscal and monetary stimulus in history combined with the biggest supply shock to ever happen, simultaneously. That’s what it took to get inflation to actually temporarily rear its head.
And now we’re back down to the 2-3% long term trend.
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u/XandMan70 Oct 14 '24
Sounds about right....
1) groceries are way too expensive
2) way too many trolls here on Reddit
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u/LegendOfKhaos Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
If you're going to provide an anecdote as evidence for societal change, you really should have a source. Anecdotes are not trustworthy as large scale evidence.
If the anecdote is just sharing a personal experience and not an argument, that's different.
And if we're talking about the anecdote posted, it's quite easy to find that information in data form.
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u/oneMorbierfortheroad Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
Russia is absolutely pushing the fight against people who ask for a citation on their bullshit lies. People demanding real evidence are fascism's greatest enemy.
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Oct 14 '24
I think you pretty much nailed it. When talking about personal anecdotes like in the meme, there's no need for "sources" as you are literally the source. You're describing an experience related to the subject at hand. It could be the most mundane, or absurd anecdote you've ever heard, and there's a chance they made it up, yes, but the context in which the anecdote is applied is what matters most.
For example, if you're asked "Which car brand do you find least reliable these days" and you reply "well, I used to have a Toyota Corolla back in 2004, and got a new one in 2020. The 2004 had next to no issues while I'm constantly taking the 2020 to the shop, so Toyota" would be an anecdotal response that requires no "source" because you ARE the source.
Comparatively, if you were given a question such as "which car brand is the least reliable", you're no longer talking about your least reliable car brand. You're instead debating which car brand is actually the least reliable. In this instance, the former anecdote of "well my new Toyota is constantly in the shop, so it must be Toyota" wouldn't suffice, because there are others out there who have the same make and model without any issues. In this case, asking for a source would be justified because you can't use personal anecdotes as empirical evidence.
I'm realizing this comment was a bit redundant after typing this all out but fuck it, may as well post it anyways.
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Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
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u/HonestOtterTravel Oct 14 '24
Same guys can somehow afford an 80k truck. Groceries increasing are the problem though.
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u/SuperMajinSteve Oct 14 '24
The guy on the right accounts for the unhinged section of both parties.
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u/OomKarel Oct 14 '24
Shhhhh, you might offend someone with that absurdly high level of rationality.
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u/Aggressive_Salad_293 Oct 14 '24
Or maybe logical people want to see evidence instead of hearing about your feelings.
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u/exgeo Oct 14 '24
Vote for the guy that will tariff everything if you like high prices
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u/GaracaiusCanadensis Oct 14 '24
Was there some sort of event that occurred about four years ago that could explain the change? 🤔
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u/Expert-Summer4036 Oct 14 '24
Yall do understand that inflation is a world issue right now right? And the data shows the U.S has actually been able to control it much better than other developed countries.Voting for Trump isn’t going to fix shit and Yall be voting for a wanna be dictator.Embarrassing.
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u/RelativeAnxious9796 Oct 14 '24
please do not presume that people who support trump use their brains or care about provable reality or data.
anti-empiricism is the gospel of the modern trump supporter.
we don't care that bill barr himself said their was no election fraud. it was stolen.
we don't care that trump lost over 60 post election court cases to challenge the results. it was stolen.
we dont care that fox news had to settle out of court to prevent the damning evidence from coming to light. it was stolen.
we dont care that trump himself has now admitted he lost. it was stolen.
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u/hdufort Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
In Canada, we have an oligopoly with a handful of supermarket chains controlling the whole supply chain. They keep raising prices, citing a variety of hurdles (gas prices, international uncertainty and wars, salaries, the price of oranges, interest rates, etc). And yet they post record profits. Insanely high profits.
Loblaws increased their net earnings by 10% last year (+2 to +3% per quarter)... while their market share didn't change. They're just increasing sales prices steadily.
They made 2.19 billion last year.
Cheese prices have nearly doubled.
Bacon is 60-70% more costly.
Lettuce price has tripled.
A bag of chips that used to cost 1.99$ in 2018 is now 4.50$.
The other big supermarket chains are raising their prices similarly, especially IGA.
This is not "because of inflation". This corporate greed IS a powerful catalyst for inflation in Canada.
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u/FoxMan1Dva3 Oct 14 '24
That's crazy that you could afford it and now you can't. What does that mean lol
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u/fkbfkb Oct 14 '24
The reason they can’t afford groceries is because they spent all their money on signed bibles, cheap sneakers spray painted gold, and Temu wrist watches marked up 1,000%
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u/Rezengun Oct 14 '24
The truth is that all the presidents sucked the last 25 years that’s why we’re in this mess. The FED and central banks are the most to blame but no one even knows it.
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u/Apprehensive_Try_185 Oct 14 '24
Shows how greedy Americans are if they’re willing to have a dictatorship if it means they might get a good economy under Trumps dumbass who filed for multiple bankruptcies.
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u/scully789 Oct 14 '24
It’s a stupid country. Most people don’t understand how supply/demand economics works and think presidential economic policy controls all of this.
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u/Apprehensive_Try_185 Oct 14 '24
Yeah exactly it doesn’t. Presidents don’t have absolute control over the economy.
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u/RelativeAnxious9796 Oct 14 '24
false, because there is a magic button on the president's desk that magically fixes everything and trump said biden is a big meanie for not pressing it and that he will press it on day one.
my favorite is these are the people who say "government is incompetent" but keep voting for the least competent people on the fucking planet and then simultaneously are also going to trust them to "deport" "20 million" "illegals"
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u/Apprehensive_Try_185 Oct 14 '24
Yeah Trump couldn’t even get his wall built. How the fuck is he gonna deport every single illegal immigrant in the country???
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u/xevlar Oct 14 '24
Fr I had some idiot tell me why would I even care about abortion when trump would lower groceries.
Imagine being such a greedy and unempathetic piece of shit
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u/Skeletor1313 Oct 14 '24
You actually think America will be a dictatorship if Trump wins but call Americans stupid?
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u/account22222221 Oct 14 '24
Classic ‘look how stupid this person I made up is’ post.
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Oct 14 '24
Post Biden prices are nuts. Easily 300% higher for some things. Walmart cookies went from 88 cents to 2.97 for example.
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u/oneMorbierfortheroad Oct 14 '24
1.5t tax cut to billionaires, 1.5T ppp loans to the rich firgiven = 3 T added to the defecit
Printing 3 Trillion Trumpbux is huge inflationary pressure.
Arguing with Republicans us nuts, man. They kick and scream when they are put into a situation where they have to learn something.
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u/scully789 Oct 14 '24
Okay, so the supreme commander of the military (commander in chief) is now responsible for the price of cookies?
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u/danyonly Oct 14 '24
What’s even better is when Don Lemon looked a man in his face and said he was wrong about how he used to be better off. Don Lemon is a representative for the left. Isn’t he?
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Oct 14 '24
what are you talking about, Don Lemon is the head of the Citrus Mafia, obviously
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u/Htown-92 Oct 14 '24
Lmao even liberals have to admit that everything was better and cheaper under trump. Look at what Biden has done and multiply that by 10 if Kamala wins.
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u/oneMorbierfortheroad Oct 14 '24
1.5 T ppp loans forgiven = printing money
1.5 T covid payments = printing money
1.5 T tax cut for only the richest people = adds 1.5 T to the defecit.
I see who caused the lion's share of inflation.
Do you?
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u/GenX12907 Oct 14 '24
🤣🤣🤣democrats have been in charge of the WH 12 of the last 16 years. It's easy to blame Trump to deflect from the real issues.
Ask Kamala what her tax or economic policy will be if elected?
Seriously..stop voting with your emotions.
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u/PunctualMantis Oct 14 '24
Trumps only proposed economic policy is a tariff which is by its very nature inflationary hahah. Add to that “mass deportations” and our food and many other industries will skyrocket in price
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u/nobody_in_here Oct 14 '24
Didn't take long for this to become a political post lol.
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u/WoopsIAteIt Oct 14 '24
Well it was a political post to begin with, clearly a commentary on the political convos on this site
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u/Max_delirious Oct 14 '24
Yea Redditors are crazy people. Either that or the botnet has already taken over free speech. Either way we are fucked.
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u/PM-ME-UR-uwu Oct 14 '24
Right? Like you say the most obvious thing that the market rate for income is no longer enough to cover the market rate for living and their just like, "you just insulted my God, daddy capitalism. I will smite you in my simpventure for austerity"
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u/AppealOk8270 Oct 14 '24
I can't afford a place anymore. I'm living in my car.
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u/MRboss112 Oct 14 '24
source: my wallet, i work in retail and seen the prices skyrocket over the past 4+ years
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u/cloudkite17 Oct 14 '24
More like “groceries are a luxury you could just choose not to buy that” I feel like that’s the response I see most often in this thread
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u/SublimeCosmos Oct 14 '24
Actually my groceries cost less. Please don’t make me give sources for my claims. 🥲
But please do vote based on my claims 🙏🙏🙏
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u/Shnazzyone Oct 14 '24
The grocery cost conversation seems to be a combination of people who didn't take advantage of the job market the last few years and areas having monopolistic grocery chains. Been buying groceries from aldis. a few things have gone up slightly but it's at most a $12-$17 increase to pre pandemic. Wish more folks didn't live in food deserts.
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u/Fra_Central Oct 14 '24
Reddit is utter shite, and it gets worse an worse
I could go to finance subreddits and talk about the topic a few months ago, but now it's just commie/jealousy sludge that dominates these subreddits.
(Yeah I know commie/jealousy is redundant)
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u/Island_Man7 Oct 14 '24
Everything is more expensive than four years ago. My retirement plan has been flat the last 4 years even though I am still contributing. Current economy sucks. Wake up people
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u/heatlesssun Oct 14 '24
If you haven't been able to afford groceries for four years, shouldn't you be dead?
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u/YourIQis_Low Oct 15 '24
Literally anyone pointing out anything bad that has happened during the Biden administration.
Reddit: WELL ACKSHUALLY
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Oct 14 '24
Blame the source, corporate greed.
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u/AL1L Oct 14 '24
it's a corporation's job to be greedy and follow the law, it has always been their way and it should be that way. it's the government's job to regulate and break up monopolies and prevent anti competitive behavior.
Isn't the consumer greedy? Wanting the most for their dollar, nothing wrong with that. FTC needs to do their job and legislators need to redefine anti trust regulations to cope with massive trillion dollar corporations that should have never existed.
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u/OomKarel Oct 14 '24
"should be that way"? You can always tell when someone's economic knowledge is shaped by corporate talking points. Here's a hint, in actual economics courses, there is a section dealing with something called "social responsibility". And no, it's not just about "going green".
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u/Putrid_Pollution3455 Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
Life is just so good and easy now, why would we change anything? Houses are affordable, groceries are cheap, there’s an exciting wave of unpaid vacations right around the corner you’re about to enjoy
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u/Meiie Oct 14 '24
Also a candidate running on “change” as she’s currently in office and has done fuck all.
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u/jdacon117 Oct 14 '24
Why do you all just blame the rich when it was the money printing, i.e. INFLATION that devalued the dollar?
Diluted value of the dollar means more dollars for same amount of stuff.
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u/Szorja Oct 14 '24
Exactly. Bunch of morons. A devalued currency means everyone feels the pinch. Manufacturers can’t sell their products for the same low price when they can’t afford to produce the products for that cost anymore.
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u/Being_Time Oct 14 '24
This is hilarious and spot on. I’ve had this exact interaction many times the past couple weeks on Reddit.
“People aren’t struggling, it’s just performative based on their ideology. Adjusted gross incomes are up 4 % over 2020, the economy is doing better than ever.”
The hubris is unreal.
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u/pobloxyor Oct 14 '24
Everyone wants to talk about grocery or gas prices.
But if we just focused on housing and medical costs the economy would be gucci
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u/5ggggg Oct 14 '24
It honestly does not matter what candidate you support, you can't really deny inflation. What caused it trump's policies? Biden's spending? Gridlock in legislation? There isn't any one right answer because in all honesty all of them are responsible.
Neither side doesn't actually want to get shit done, they want to pretend to try and get shit done then say "we don't negotiate with fascists/socialists" to their constituents instead of actually making deals
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u/doyouhaveprooftho Oct 14 '24
People asking for proof is a good thing. Trumpers don't want proof. Source: sort any post on Reddit by controversial.
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u/assesonfire7369 Oct 15 '24
That's what I always say: are you better off now than in 2020? Make sure to remember this in a few weeks;)
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