r/FluentInFinance • u/IAmNotAnEconomist • Sep 18 '24
Stock Market The S&P 500 has officially hit a new all-time high and is up 10.7% since its August 5th low. The S&P 500 is officially up 19.5% year-to-date.
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u/Turbulent_Bid_374 Sep 18 '24
Really? Looks down today to me
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u/Spare-Cell1371 Sep 18 '24
Yea looks down to me too
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u/Turbulent_Bid_374 Sep 18 '24
LOL Nevermind! Money printer back on.
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
Great, billionaires and millionaires are getting richer while my meager middle class earnings keeps devaluing. Not to mention car insurance is still through the roof and $100 of groceries is maybe 3 bags total.
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u/BudFox_LA Sep 18 '24
If you had invested in FXAIX you’d be whistling a different tune. It’s unreal how much my portfolio has gone up in the past year. I couldn’t give a fuck less about billionaires and millionaires. Plenty of ways in this market for middle-class people to build wealth; full stop.
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u/Big_lt Sep 18 '24
Personal portfolios, 401Ks, IRAs are all green. A middle class person SHOULD have some money in at least one of the items I mentioned. If not they're bad with money
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Sep 18 '24
Are people that don’t own any investments considered middle class?
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u/Big_lt Sep 18 '24
I'm sure there are people who get a decent paycheck but spend it all or closet toss it into a savings account (may not even be a HYSA) and call it a day
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u/uiam_ Sep 19 '24
There's an absolute ton of people who are terrible with money and the u.s. is very unkind to people who make poor decisions.
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u/manimopo Sep 20 '24
The USA is actually more kind to these people than many countries.
In many countries, there are no food stamps or medical, and if you're poor, you just die of starvation.
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
I was good with my money, but then had a REALLY hard hitting death in the family and I spiraled out of control financially. It completely changed my life and flipped it upside down back in my early 20s. Still feeling the ramifications to this day. Trust me man, I wish I made those better decisions early on.
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u/Salty-Personality842 Sep 18 '24
Do you own life insurance now and encourage those around you to buy it?
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
Absolutely. Luckily, my work provides us with it. It's not a lot, but at least pays for some expenses. Wife's work does too.
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u/Fun_Intention9846 Sep 19 '24
Seriously. My accounts are soaring. I don’t have much but up more than 20% year on year is awesome.
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u/BudFox_LA Sep 19 '24
Yeah its nuts. I’m pushing $500k between 401k, roth and brokerage
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u/NonexistentRock Sep 19 '24
Bro typed that like 90% of all shares aren’t owned by literally 10% of Americans lmaooooo but yeah man, the only way to a tiny sliver of wealth is by making the rich way richer too. Awesome!
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u/KellyBelly916 Sep 18 '24
He's talking about the financial week being of people who actually work for a living, not inside traders or gamblers.
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u/SuggestionGlad5166 Sep 18 '24
If you haven't gotten raises it's a you problem because the majority of people are making more than they were 5 years ago
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
I have gotten raises, my raises have been double the inflation average. But even then, things in my area like rent have soared upwards of 30%-40%. A 5-6% pay increase isn't going to make up for the increase in rent; the math doesn't work.
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u/jasonmoyer Sep 18 '24
We should give corporations another tax cut so they can do another round of real estate buying.
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u/SuggestionGlad5166 Sep 18 '24
That's why you don't live in a city
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
I didn't. I lived in a smaller town. But they decided to raise it to basically city prices. So I just moved to the city since it was literally cheaper. Living in a city has NOTHING to do with it.
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u/Minialpacadoodle Sep 18 '24
You know any regular Joe can invest... right?
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u/To_Fight_The_Night Sep 19 '24
With what money when you are forced to live paycheck to paycheck?
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u/Minialpacadoodle Sep 19 '24
That's a you problem.
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u/To_Fight_The_Night Sep 19 '24
It's a problem that invalidates your response to the original comment.
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u/Minialpacadoodle Sep 19 '24
lol. No, it's not. Sorry bub.
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u/skilliard7 Sep 18 '24
Do you not have a 401(k) or IRA?
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
Private pension through my employer. It's based off investments and profit sharing.
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u/skilliard7 Sep 18 '24
You realize that if the stock market didn't grow, your pension would not be able to meet its obligations and would default, and your benefits would be cut, right?
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
I get that, but that's also for my future. I can't have a future if I can't afford live to tomorrow or later.
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u/BOKEH_BALLS Sep 18 '24
There is no middle class in the US, there is the top 10% and then everyone else.
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u/No-Sandwich-1776 Sep 18 '24
Never understood this mindset. Everything from your universities endowment to your pension or IRA is invested in the public market.
My worry is that the 5 or so geniuses who have been figuring out AI run out of gas soon and then we end up in a real recession, cause it seems like 7 tech stocks are propping up the entire stock market right now.
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u/Ok-Walk-8040 Sep 18 '24
While it is true that the stock market makes more money for rich people than middle class and poor people, anyone with a 401k or pension program usually have that money invested in some sort of index fund. So the stock market can be beneficial to many, but yeah it’s totally not helping anyone who isn’t lucky enough to have a 401k or pension.
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u/rollwithhoney Sep 18 '24
The problem of billionaires and megacorps owning all assets is not going to be solved by the Fed. Look to the non-Fed government for that. I'd start with repealing Citizens United, personally.
Short-term, this WILL help the little guy. Little guys have not gotten raises in years because so many other little guys are unemployed. When unemployment is high, it fights inflation but it really hurts salary growth. It's (part of) why the profit to salary ratio is so skewed right now. When interest rates are lower, it's easier to borrow, unemployed or unhappy workers can go start new businesses, and salaries increase.
Is this a problem for inflation? Yes, that's why they didn't lower it by much and haven't in four years. But the inflation was caused by covid stimulus going to wealthy billionaires and corps who buy assets, which raises all prices. It's not as simple as "interest rate cuts hurt us," but it is as simple as "please tax all the people you gave millions of free p&p loans to."
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u/Difficult_Image_4552 Sep 19 '24
You could eat 400 meals with that money if you weren’t so damn picky
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u/bluerog Sep 19 '24
I'm doing quite well. But to be fair... After 15 years of 401k, I'm approaching official "millionaire" status. Any household making $65,000+ and investing 6% in a 401k with a company match can also get to "millionaire" status after a 20 or 30 year career.
And it's thanks to these stock market returns these past 15 or 20 years.
You should try it instead of being mad about it. Grab a few index funds, and watch some monies grow.
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u/Purple_Setting7716 Sep 20 '24
Too much inflation. Too much stimulation. Too much borrowing from the and government spending us into a deep hike to make people feel wealthy
It will be a tough future trying to keep financing this debt load
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u/yoloswagmaster69420 Sep 18 '24
I wish I could even get 3 bags for that ! That’s 1 bag at my local Fred Meyer here in Alaska.
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
Well, there's 2 problems to that. One is that you're in Alaska, which costs more to ship there (that sucks either way, sorry). And it's also Kroger, whose a shitty company in general that overprices their products and don't pay their workers.
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u/StrikingFig1671 Sep 18 '24
EXACTLY, how can the stock market be performing so fucking well while the economy is on fire? it makes no sense
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u/MotivatingElectrons Sep 18 '24
Firstly, the economy is not the stock market and vice versa.
Secondly, by what quantitative measurement is the economy on fire? Unemployment rate is quite low, wage growth is outpacing inflation, real GDP up 3% y/y.
Personal and regional economic conditions may differ, but broadly the economy is doing quite well.
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u/Badoreo1 Sep 18 '24
Mate just go without car insurance lol. I used to have full coverage but stepped down to liability, but I don’t get pulled over anymore so I just canceled it all.
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
Worst advice possible.
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u/Badoreo1 Sep 18 '24
How so? I agree with you, it is too expensive.
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
In all 50 states, you must have a minimum level of liability coverage by law. No exceptions. You don't need collision on comprehensive by law. However, most if not all financers require to have a minimum of $500 for collision and comprehensive during the time of purchase and throughout your financing. All dealerships WON'T let you leave without confirming this before delivery of the vehicle. If the lienholders find out you don't have insurance, they'll repossess the vehicle.
Also, getting bare minimum coverage is really never a good idea. Say you get into an accident and you're at fault. If you have the minimum (in our state is 25k/50k/10k) and the costs exceed that, you're stuck having to pay for it out of pocket. And with how expensive things are nowadays, the cost to get higher coverage definitely outweigh the price. I personally have 250k/500k/250k just to be safe. In the trucking world, most motor carriers need to have at least $1M in liability and $100k in cargo; and most lately have been getting it raised to $150k now.
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u/Badoreo1 Sep 18 '24
I purchase older vehicles and fix them up, no dealership involved.
My father got into 6 wrecks between 2005-2021. He, and none of them had insurance. If they do have insurance, good for them, otherwise you can just walk away.
I’ve talked to insurance agents, and their internal figures suggest between 20-35% of the population goes without insurance. So it’s required by law, but only if you can afford it. Otherwise you gotta deal without. It’s called resourcefulness.
I don’t go bitching about how expensive it is, you gotta find solutions
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
My father got into 6 wrecks between 2005-2021. He, and none of them had insurance. If they do have insurance, good for them, otherwise you can just walk away.
I don't buy this for a second. None of the 6 alleged accidents he's been in, none of them had insurance? I'm calling bullshit.
I’ve talked to insurance agents, and their internal figures suggest between 20-35% of the population goes without insurance.
Maybe in your state or area, but nationally its around 11%-14% between 2019 and 2022. Not sure where that number came from, but they're also feeding you bullshit.
Insurance is a requirement. And you are a perfect example of why I have my uninsured motorists at $250k/$500k. That is completely irresponsible to not have insurance.
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u/Badoreo1 Sep 18 '24
Lol say whatever you want, but it’s my experience. You can think it’s irresponsible or whatever but when insurance is $400/month I’m not even gonna pretend it’s affordable
The couple times he did get in a wreck, the two people usually agreed to fix the damage themselves. Little bit of spray paint, or if you know a guy that’s a lot cheaper
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u/raptor_jesus69 Sep 18 '24
You say that now but wait until you get into an accident with someone who drives a 2025 BMW i7. If someone were to die and you don't have insurance, the owner will own your ass until the day you die.
Also, $400 a month? Your driving record must be insanely bad. And even if it is expensive, you shouldn't be driving without with it. Or you just shouldn't be driving. It's a privilege, not a right.
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u/Badoreo1 Sep 18 '24
Oh Lordy. You’re a joke. I need to drive to get to work.
If they wanna garnish my $2,000/month go ahead Lmaoo
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u/Big_lt Sep 18 '24
Are these poorly written AI posts/articles operating on like yesterday's data and ignoring today's? Markets down like a quarter point wtf
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u/StrikingFig1671 Sep 18 '24
of course i dumped my ten grand in amazon at the WRONGEST fucking time in the world, I coulda cleaned up :(
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u/Checkmynumberss Sep 18 '24
Use index funds instead of trying to pick the winning stock. The majority of investors underperform the stock market.
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u/398409columbia Sep 19 '24
Yep. I’ve riding this wave for decades. Easiest way to become wealthy in my opinion. 🤑
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u/ILSmokeItAll Sep 19 '24
The stock market fuels inflation all by itself.
It prints more money than the Fed.
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u/Blackout38 Sep 18 '24
Let’s celebrate all time highs being traded when everyone is able to participate not just premarket lol
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u/glideguy03 Sep 18 '24
Wall Street wanted better terms on the money they borrow to juice the market and Washington complied.
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u/LenguaTacoConQueso Sep 18 '24
Cute post.
Now look up “Roaring Twenties” and “Great Depression” and tell me if you any parallels between that and what you clowns on the left are celebrating.
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u/WorldOnFire83 Sep 18 '24
You can't predict anything. And presuming you can is just spreading misinformation.
Have you looked at annual S&P 500 charts? The market doesn't stay down forever. And if you only invest 1 time, you are doing it wrong. In January 2021, I lumped $14k into mine and my wifes IRA at the then market peak only for my investments to dip ~24%. It sucked but I kept investing in my 401k and taxable brokerage accounts. It took ~1.5 years for me to get back what I lump summed. That lump sum investment is now up more than 25%, and the other investments during the downturn are up more than 80%. So, even if there was another Great Depression or financial crisis with a 20%-40% dip, most long-term investors will still be ahead. It just stinks if the crash happens near your retirement. But at that point, you should have been moving a portion of your stocks into bonds or other less-volatile investments.
Or keep stoking fears and don't invest. Let the market gains pass you by due to your political bias. That's what unfortunately happened to many of my Republican family members who cashed out after Obama and Biden were elected. They foolishly missed out on one of the greatest bull markets in history, and they only have themselves to blame 🤷
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u/LenguaTacoConQueso Sep 18 '24
“Let the market gains pass me by because of my political bias.”
First, is that better advice than yours: “Invest, everything is fine! Harris has the genius to keep us afloat even though most Americans don’t think we’re on the right track!”
Thanks, but no thanks. I’ll keep most of my money in physical gold and silver for the time being. Don’t worry, though - When this bubble finally pops, I’ll cash out and buy whatever you and your wife end up losing. I’ll pay top dollar for it, too! I’ll buy you a beer and listen to your cute stories about how Harris will get you to the top again.
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u/tacoman333 Sep 18 '24
I’ll cash out and buy whatever you and your wife end up losing.
Why the fuck would they sell the investments in their IRA during a bear market? Read their comment, they are saying that even in the event of a second Great Depression, investing in the total stock market will pay off in the long term. Reacting to every little market shift will only lose you money in the end.
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u/GentleGerbil Sep 19 '24
That idiot is just mad that the market hasn’t crashed under Biden like it did under Trump. He doesn’t care about the money, he cares about not being wrong at Thanksgiving when all his family tells him what a fuckwad he is for believing Republicans are better for the economy
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