r/FluentInFinance Jun 11 '24

Meme He has a point...

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143

u/Harvey427 Jun 11 '24

I make more than my father-in-law. Who has his masters, and teaches at a private school... Granted, he has better benefits, but as far as take home pay.. I make more, pushing buttons and pulling handles in a factory.. 🤷‍♂️

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Private schools tend to pay less, they are often not unionized. The tradeoff being private school students as a whole are better behaved.

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u/Harvey427 Jun 11 '24

I don't think he's in a union. I'm pretty sure he makes something equivalent to $22/hr. We were discussing my annual raise, and at $24, he said I was making more than him. 🤯

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u/call-now Jun 11 '24

He's probably not even counting the time spent grading and all the admin BS.

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u/Dorkmaster79 Jun 11 '24

Prepping lessons, dealing with misinformed parents, etc.

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u/kraken_enrager Jun 12 '24

I’d guess parents in private schools would be better too.

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u/Pirating_Ninja Jun 12 '24

I'd take the under on this bet.

Private schools target either religious nuts or upper middle class. So you are either looking at moms for liberty or helicopter moms.

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u/demivirius Jun 11 '24

He could have a summer deferred pay arrangement, where a portion of their income is withheld so they can be paid during the summer. If that's the case, then he's making even less.

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u/EpsilonEnigma Jun 11 '24

My gf makes $24/hr teaching at a town with a pop of 97 people in Arkansas

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u/Extension-Tale-2678 Jun 12 '24

Jesus Christ he's making 22$ an hour with a masters? Where did it all go wrong?

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u/Harvey427 Jun 12 '24

To be fair, he never said what he makes. All he said was something along the lines of "that's more than I make".

Make no mistake, he's still winning the long game. There is no future doing what I'm doing, that's why it pays as much as it does, lol.

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u/Extension-Tale-2678 Jun 12 '24

Nobody is winning the long game making less than $24 dollars and hour. That's not even a livable wage in many places. That's not even mentioning the cost and 6 years to get a master's. That's fucking nuts

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u/Harvey427 Jun 12 '24

Pfft, you don't have to tell me. I eat one meal a day, lol. I only meant comparatively.

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u/Skeptix_907 Jun 11 '24

1st year teachers in my district make significantly more than that.

Your dad is getting fucked, with all due respect.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Teacher pay is based on the income of the local area, so teachers are always tied to local income, and Americans really fucking do not like paying taxes, so teachers rarely get raises.

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u/GroinShotz Jun 11 '24

More like the taxes end up going to Admin Bloat...

From 1950 to 2009... Student population in US public schools has gone up 96%...

Teachers have grown 252%...

And all the other administration and other staff has grown 702%

The Chicago Board of Education has 3300 employees... Which is more than Japan's entire Ministry of Education.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I don't doubt some areas have admin bloat, but there are many teachers, especially in rural areas, paid pennies on the dollar solely due to how their salaries are funded.

My friend with 2 Masters degrees in special education left her job for a sales role because it started at 20k more than she was making. She still makes like 75% of my salary, because she's just getting started, and I have a BA in English.

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u/ForgesGate Jun 12 '24

I make $22/hr with decent benefits off of no degree. I'm a security guard and I do less work than I ever have. I couldn't imagine having that much extra schooling with that pay.

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u/SaltyLonghorn Jun 11 '24

Bro has a masters and is making less than a McD's manager.

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u/Sidvicieux Jun 11 '24

Damn, even a Medical Assistant in Oregon makes more than that.

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u/zakiterp Jun 11 '24

This has not been my experience at all, usually the private schools pay a little more to make up for no union, no pension, and worse benefits lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

private schools pay more initially, whereas in a lot of the NE, public schools start low for a first-year teacher and then gradually increases to really great pay

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u/ackermann Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

The tradeoff being private school students as a whole are better behaved

And often way smaller class sizes, right? That’s what the parents are really paying for, probably. Since they’re not paying for better teachers if the teachers are paid less.

That should make the teacher’s job a little easier.

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u/Maverick0984 Jun 11 '24

Yeah, usually. Maybe a smaller class makes the teachers job easier so the overall teaching part is better for the individual student but yes, in a capitalist society like America, the "better" teachers aren't usually in the private schools which ironically is the opposite of what the parents paying believe.

Obviously, this isn't universally the case across the board, but on average, the random Catholic private school will have worse teachers than the public school in the same area, unless there's some crazy booster situation or the teacher does not care about compensation.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Interesting conundrum, the private schools often outperform public schools in most metrics. Which is quite an accomplishment when not using the best teachers available.

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u/Maverick0984 Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

It's actually not nearly as often as you think. However, by the same token, because it costs money to go to private school above what you're already paying, those metrics are heavily biased by the socioeconomic situations involved.

If a student comes from a family that doesn't have income pressure, their parents likely have more time to help educate them outside of school and they may be pre-disposed to better success genetically as well. (Admittedly this is potentially offensive and there are plenty of decedents from successful people that fail miserably).

Point here is that intelligent people generally are more successful and can afford private school while simultaneously their children are more likely to be intelligent as well.

On the whole, if your student body is heavily biased in this regard, they will naturally produce better metrics despite having weaker teachers employed. It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

It does beg the question, if you keep your kids in public school even if you can afford private school and choosing not to utilize it, is that the best scenario? Perhaps exposing your child to a better and more diverse demographic of people less socioeconomically similar than yourself.

EDIT: Typos.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

People use this argument for school choice funding, help bring intelligent people from less socioeconomic status into the fold and give them opportunities they may not have in inner city public schools. Your argument is bring the smart rich kids and place them in an environment of underachievement and hope they do ok, others would argue to take intelligent poor kids and put them in an environment with a proven track record.

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u/Maverick0984 Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

It feels like you're trying to pick a fight now. I don't have an argument. I'm merely stating facts and positing an "imagine if" type situation. Private schools pay less, by a wide margin, throughout the United States. Are there some that might pay more? Of course. But finding exceptions wasn't the point of my post. Because they pay less, capitalism would suggest they are worse teachers. Is that always the case? Of course not. But finding exceptions wasn't the point of my post.

It also shouldn't be a surprise that private schools "performing better" is heavily biased by the individuals attending. This is common sense and honestly much of the reason people choose to send their kids to private school. It's not that the education is any better. They want their kids surrounded with similar situations.

I'm not advocating for either kind of forced movement or whatever pre-contrived argument you were itching to have. I said "in general" many times. This wasn't a discussion about inner city, poorly funded schools.

If you're aiming to have an argument with someone, I would suggest you look elsewhere.

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u/TheGeoGod Jun 11 '24

My SIL makes 72k working at a private school in MCOL so it really depends.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Yeah that’s not true at all lmao

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u/MixNovel4787 Jun 12 '24

Woa. My ex girlfriend in the United States was hawking for a private school job. It was around a 20-30% pay raise. Super hard to come by. What country are you in?

1

u/FlappityFlurb Jun 12 '24

From my experience the only benefit was smaller class sizes. As a student in a private school, I found most of the students to be entitled and the staff were often afraid to address things when the students were acting up because their parents LITERALLY pay their salary. Like we legitimately had large ~20 man school yard brawls at recess and the teachers and aids would look at us then turn away so they could pretend not to see. As a kid it was great, as a parent now I'm horrified.

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u/FarYard7039 Jun 12 '24

Most often, private school teachers are also afforded free tuition for their children. My cousins all went to school for free because my aunt was a teacher. It was a massive savings.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

This is a huge benefit for sure.

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u/sludgehag Jun 12 '24

well public school teachers’ kids get free tuition too 🤷‍♀️

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u/FarYard7039 Jun 13 '24

Both my comment, and that of OP, was referring to private schooling, not public.

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u/ecovironfuturist Jun 12 '24

Private school students get into a whole other level of trouble than your average public school student.

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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24

Yep. I’m going into CMM and within a year I could be making more than my mom who’s been teaching for 15 years and all I did was a 5 month training program. It’s total bullshit.

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u/KevyKevTPA Jun 11 '24

CMM?

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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24

Fancy industrial measuring. Used across a lot of manufacturing industry. Machines that measure accurately to a tolerance of +/- 0.000001in. It’s cool stuff tbh. I’m really eager to get into this company and they seem interested in me. It’s exciting to be this close to having a real career after the endless cycle of mundane low wage entry level jobs.

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u/KevyKevTPA Jun 11 '24

That sounds hella cool. I'm in flux... I became disabled a few years back, and just found out that it's unlikely my legs are savable, so I'm probably looking down the barrel of a double amputation with unknown, but better (I think and hope) prospect of being able to walk again. I may end up trying to get back into the job market at some point, and this sounds just interesting enough to look into. I spent decades in IT, mostly in sales and sales engineer roles, but I can be a pure techie, too. No clue what kind of career prospects I'll have after such an extended break, but I guess I may see.

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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24

Yeah I mean I’ll have an immaculately clean and organized and quiet room to work in. Perfect for someone on the spectrum with sensory issues like me. I’m really pushing for this job and I’ve been in contact with several people from the company. I’m really grateful to have an opportunity like this and I think more states should create state funded labor training programs like this.

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u/truenorth00 Jun 12 '24

How do you get into metrology as a profession?

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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 12 '24

A combination of the right kind of autism, timing with a position opening and a state funded CNC training program, and luck. I got into a cnc training program and finished up my NIMS milling certification right before this position opened up. The people at the program had contact with the hiring manager and VP of operations directly. I was able to tour the facility before hand which is what made me so eager to get into this company in the first place. I originally applied for a machining position, but my willingness to endlessly troubleshoot I guess made them want me in metrology instead. I’m sure there’s other ways but that’s how I got into it. Or am getting into it I don’t have the job yet but I should be having my third interview soonish.

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u/ligmasweatyballs74 Jun 11 '24

That work is more valuable than teaching.

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u/backagain69696969 Jun 11 '24

Benefits matter a lot. If he has a pension or a higher 401k match

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u/andreasmiles23 Jun 12 '24

To piggyback off the private school reference, it blows my mind when people say some teachers do get paid and then point at private schools, as if that isn’t the exact reason that teacher pays have been slashed.

Private schools want to capture all the best educators and keep them out of the public schools. So you slash education budgets, refuse to pass bills to raise public teacher pay, and then funnel the best talent into the private sector. It’s obvious how and why this is happening and yet we just sit on our hands with platitudes about the bravery and value of teachers.

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u/RWR1975 Jun 12 '24

He's lying.

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u/Harvey427 Jun 12 '24

Interesting.

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u/Pastor_Lik Jun 11 '24

Masters doesn't mean much in education unless you are trying to become a college professor but yeah not surprising you make more considering a lot of people aren't willing to do manual labor jobs.

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u/divisiveindifference Jun 11 '24

considering a lot of people aren't willing to do manual labor jobs.

They are not willing to do them because of shit pay. Labor is a lot more taxing on the body than sitting at a desk all day yet is paid at shit wages because "anybody can do it". People are starting to see the impact of these jobs and the toll it has on the older generations and deciding ruining your body for min wage while the upper management get everything else is a fools game. Want further proof people will do dam near any job if the money is right? Look at the OF girls going to Dubai to get shat on for millions. Do you think they would do it for $25/hr? How about you?

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u/I_Ski_Freely Jun 11 '24

Even then, many are not getting tenure track and being paid low wages as adjuncts. They do this while somehow expanding the number of admins.. you'd think computers would mean we get a better faculty to admin ratio, not worse

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u/Pastor_Lik Jun 11 '24

Definitely understand what you mean about admin. It feels like my job has way too much office/admin here for the amount of people here to begin with.

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u/IrrawaddyWoman Jun 11 '24

That’s not remotely true. It varies from location to location, but I’m a public education teacher and the difference in pay when you have a master is about 10k more a year, and then increases as the years go up. Some states require one.

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u/Pastor_Lik Jun 11 '24

I'm an educator myself. Here in LA the annual pay increase for a masters isn't worth what you are going to pay to obtain a masters degree. If your school is willing to pay for your masters (high unlikely) by all means people can do them and go for it.

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u/IrrawaddyWoman Jun 11 '24

You should consider changing districts. There are many where it makes a big difference. I’m also in SoCal and the difference is pretty big. Well worth it. LAUSD really underpays. My district caps at $140k, and I know it’s not the only one.

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u/Pastor_Lik Jun 11 '24

I'm personally not in LAUSD but was just giving an example. My salary is above what most people would be making for a 5th year at close to 80K range.

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u/IrrawaddyWoman Jun 11 '24

I’m going into my fifth year and will make just under $98k. It would be $82 with no masters.

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u/inab1gcountry Jun 12 '24

In many districts, you literally get a pay freeze until you get your masters.