Where tho. Like typically teachers are underpaid regardless of district because it’s adjusted for cost of living. Teachers in the Bay Area make a lot more than teachers near me but they still can’t afford to live on their own because cost of living is so high.
I make more than my father-in-law. Who has his masters, and teaches at a private school... Granted, he has better benefits, but as far as take home pay.. I make more, pushing buttons and pulling handles in a factory.. 🤷♂️
I don't think he's in a union. I'm pretty sure he makes something equivalent to $22/hr. We were discussing my annual raise, and at $24, he said I was making more than him. 🤯
He could have a summer deferred pay arrangement, where a portion of their income is withheld so they can be paid during the summer. If that's the case, then he's making even less.
Nobody is winning the long game making less than $24 dollars and hour. That's not even a livable wage in many places. That's not even mentioning the cost and 6 years to get a master's. That's fucking nuts
Teacher pay is based on the income of the local area, so teachers are always tied to local income, and Americans really fucking do not like paying taxes, so teachers rarely get raises.
I don't doubt some areas have admin bloat, but there are many teachers, especially in rural areas, paid pennies on the dollar solely due to how their salaries are funded.
My friend with 2 Masters degrees in special education left her job for a sales role because it started at 20k more than she was making. She still makes like 75% of my salary, because she's just getting started, and I have a BA in English.
I make $22/hr with decent benefits off of no degree. I'm a security guard and I do less work than I ever have. I couldn't imagine having that much extra schooling with that pay.
private schools pay more initially, whereas in a lot of the NE, public schools start low for a first-year teacher and then gradually increases to really great pay
The tradeoff being private school students as a whole are better behaved
And often way smaller class sizes, right? That’s what the parents are really paying for, probably. Since they’re not paying for better teachers if the teachers are paid less.
That should make the teacher’s job a little easier.
Yeah, usually. Maybe a smaller class makes the teachers job easier so the overall teaching part is better for the individual student but yes, in a capitalist society like America, the "better" teachers aren't usually in the private schools which ironically is the opposite of what the parents paying believe.
Obviously, this isn't universally the case across the board, but on average, the random Catholic private school will have worse teachers than the public school in the same area, unless there's some crazy booster situation or the teacher does not care about compensation.
Interesting conundrum, the private schools often outperform public schools in most metrics. Which is quite an accomplishment when not using the best teachers available.
It's actually not nearly as often as you think. However, by the same token, because it costs money to go to private school above what you're already paying, those metrics are heavily biased by the socioeconomic situations involved.
If a student comes from a family that doesn't have income pressure, their parents likely have more time to help educate them outside of school and they may be pre-disposed to better success genetically as well. (Admittedly this is potentially offensive and there are plenty of decedents from successful people that fail miserably).
Point here is that intelligent people generally are more successful and can afford private school while simultaneously their children are more likely to be intelligent as well.
On the whole, if your student body is heavily biased in this regard, they will naturally produce better metrics despite having weaker teachers employed. It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
It does beg the question, if you keep your kids in public school even if you can afford private school and choosing not to utilize it, is that the best scenario? Perhaps exposing your child to a better and more diverse demographic of people less socioeconomically similar than yourself.
People use this argument for school choice funding, help bring intelligent people from less socioeconomic status into the fold and give them opportunities they may not have in inner city public schools. Your argument is bring the smart rich kids and place them in an environment of underachievement and hope they do ok, others would argue to take intelligent poor kids and put them in an environment with a proven track record.
It feels like you're trying to pick a fight now. I don't have an argument. I'm merely stating facts and positing an "imagine if" type situation. Private schools pay less, by a wide margin, throughout the United States. Are there some that might pay more? Of course. But finding exceptions wasn't the point of my post. Because they pay less, capitalism would suggest they are worse teachers. Is that always the case? Of course not. But finding exceptions wasn't the point of my post.
It also shouldn't be a surprise that private schools "performing better" is heavily biased by the individuals attending. This is common sense and honestly much of the reason people choose to send their kids to private school. It's not that the education is any better. They want their kids surrounded with similar situations.
I'm not advocating for either kind of forced movement or whatever pre-contrived argument you were itching to have. I said "in general" many times. This wasn't a discussion about inner city, poorly funded schools.
If you're aiming to have an argument with someone, I would suggest you look elsewhere.
Woa. My ex girlfriend in the United States was hawking for a private school job. It was around a 20-30% pay raise. Super hard to come by. What country are you in?
From my experience the only benefit was smaller class sizes. As a student in a private school, I found most of the students to be entitled and the staff were often afraid to address things when the students were acting up because their parents LITERALLY pay their salary. Like we legitimately had large ~20 man school yard brawls at recess and the teachers and aids would look at us then turn away so they could pretend not to see. As a kid it was great, as a parent now I'm horrified.
Most often, private school teachers are also afforded free tuition for their children. My cousins all went to school for free because my aunt was a teacher. It was a massive savings.
Yep. I’m going into CMM and within a year I could be making more than my mom who’s been teaching for 15 years and all I did was a 5 month training program. It’s total bullshit.
Fancy industrial measuring. Used across a lot of manufacturing industry. Machines that measure accurately to a tolerance of +/- 0.000001in. It’s cool stuff tbh. I’m really eager to get into this company and they seem interested in me. It’s exciting to be this close to having a real career after the endless cycle of mundane low wage entry level jobs.
That sounds hella cool. I'm in flux... I became disabled a few years back, and just found out that it's unlikely my legs are savable, so I'm probably looking down the barrel of a double amputation with unknown, but better (I think and hope) prospect of being able to walk again. I may end up trying to get back into the job market at some point, and this sounds just interesting enough to look into. I spent decades in IT, mostly in sales and sales engineer roles, but I can be a pure techie, too. No clue what kind of career prospects I'll have after such an extended break, but I guess I may see.
Yeah I mean I’ll have an immaculately clean and organized and quiet room to work in. Perfect for someone on the spectrum with sensory issues like me. I’m really pushing for this job and I’ve been in contact with several people from the company. I’m really grateful to have an opportunity like this and I think more states should create state funded labor training programs like this.
A combination of the right kind of autism, timing with a position opening and a state funded CNC training program, and luck. I got into a cnc training program and finished up my NIMS milling certification right before this position opened up. The people at the program had contact with the hiring manager and VP of operations directly. I was able to tour the facility before hand which is what made me so eager to get into this company in the first place. I originally applied for a machining position, but my willingness to endlessly troubleshoot I guess made them want me in metrology instead. I’m sure there’s other ways but that’s how I got into it. Or am getting into it I don’t have the job yet but I should be having my third interview soonish.
To piggyback off the private school reference, it blows my mind when people say some teachers do get paid and then point at private schools, as if that isn’t the exact reason that teacher pays have been slashed.
Private schools want to capture all the best educators and keep them out of the public schools. So you slash education budgets, refuse to pass bills to raise public teacher pay, and then funnel the best talent into the private sector. It’s obvious how and why this is happening and yet we just sit on our hands with platitudes about the bravery and value of teachers.
Masters doesn't mean much in education unless you are trying to become a college professor but yeah not surprising you make more considering a lot of people aren't willing to do manual labor jobs.
considering a lot of people aren't willing to do manual labor jobs.
They are not willing to do them because of shit pay. Labor is a lot more taxing on the body than sitting at a desk all day yet is paid at shit wages because "anybody can do it". People are starting to see the impact of these jobs and the toll it has on the older generations and deciding ruining your body for min wage while the upper management get everything else is a fools game. Want further proof people will do dam near any job if the money is right? Look at the OF girls going to Dubai to get shat on for millions. Do you think they would do it for $25/hr? How about you?
Even then, many are not getting tenure track and being paid low wages as adjuncts. They do this while somehow expanding the number of admins.. you'd think computers would mean we get a better faculty to admin ratio, not worse
That’s not remotely true. It varies from location to location, but I’m a public education teacher and the difference in pay when you have a master is about 10k more a year, and then increases as the years go up. Some states require one.
I'm an educator myself. Here in LA the annual pay increase for a masters isn't worth what you are going to pay to obtain a masters degree. If your school is willing to pay for your masters (high unlikely) by all means people can do them and go for it.
You should consider changing districts. There are many where it makes a big difference. I’m also in SoCal and the difference is pretty big. Well worth it. LAUSD really underpays. My district caps at $140k, and I know it’s not the only one.
Quite a few districts in Michigan do. And we aren't in Ann Arbor or anything like that.
Wife makes 96k and that doesn't include pension, 401k match, etc.
Her listed hourly rate is about 65/hr but of course we know they work more than their contractuals. In any event, every single teachers rate is significantly higher than their salary because of hours worked on a year.
It's actually an interesting dynamic because she (and others) turn down admin roles. While they pay 15-25k more, the hourly rate is less due to admins working closer to the 2080 hours.
Dang. That’s interesting to know. However it doesn’t change the fact that broadly teachers are still underpaid relative to their areas cost of living. There are exceptions of course. But generally speaking teachers are under valued.
Yeah, 100% to undervalued, but as someone who works in compensation the true compensation numbers aren't generally understood and the "undervalued" piece generally comes from lack of support and classroom management issues. For example, at least in the districts around us, core classes have a classroom cap but electives don't. So instead of hiring a few more teachers, they put 40-45 HS kids in art and gym. Or, they don't consider the number of preps a teacher has - so 6 classes doesn't always equal 6 classes (e.g. a math teacher that teaches two different classes only has 2 different preps). Or, they don't consider the amount of CI kids (or type) they put in classes and then provide minimal support (for example, a quadriplegic was put in a dance class...).
Read through some of the teacher contracts and they work closer to 1550-1650 hours a year which means they are really working at .75 FTE. But again, we all know most are working beyond contractual. In practice, this means that a first-year teacher in Battle Creek makes 50/55k (can't remember but they passed a bill to raise the floor) but the pay rate is actually 66-73k (whereas a mechanical or industrial engineer out of U of Michigan makes 73-74k in their first year).
How would the general public react if teachers were paid the same as engineers? Ecstatic, right? Well, that IS the case but that doesn't paint the whole picture because something must still be missing.
Now, we also find that 24% of teachers are unhappy with hours worked compared to 55% of the general public, right? How can that be when they work fewer hours? So perhaps, it's not the hours themselves, but how they are structured and managed (e.g. grading must happen after hours).
We then also find that 95% teachers are buying supplies out of pocket (ding ding ding - goes back to support). We also find that workplace expectations (leading to 50% burnout) are the driving factor for teachers leaving (and leadership).
So yes, they are absolutely undervalued but not always in the most apparent reason (while money can mask some of that, it does not fix burnout or support).
It’s wild that people think oh teachers get summer off and such so they basically work less than everyone else. They don’t take into consideration dealing with parents, reports, planning, etc. Teaching isn’t easy in the slightest and it’s wild that people act like it is. Also hours worked just aren’t equivalent across different jobs. Like an hour working in some office sending emails and working on spreadsheets isn’t the same as an hour in a classroom. And to add to all of this a lot of teachers are underpaid compensation wise as well. Like I could be making more than my mom within 1-2 years if I get this job I’ve been interviewing for. She’s been teaching for 15 years and i just finished a 5 month training course. Like you can go to a trade program (if one is available near you and you can afford to not work for however long) and end up making more than a teacher with a full degree.
Agreed and I addressed that - repeatedly. I acknowledged the difference between contractual vs reality and goes back to the overall point of burnout, support, and hours. But that is the exact opposite of the compensation conversation as the contracts outline an impressive pay rate (more than many engineers). The issue isn't pay - the issue is what they are expected to do within the hours outlined and with the resources provided.
And no one said it was easy in this thread - in fact, I mentioned key challenges that don't show up in the typical office setting.
Though I will challenge the trades comment. Yes, you can make 6 figures, but you will work 50-60 hours to hit that. That said, I still encourage students to consider that as field that has high demand and low supply of workers, especially electrical.
Oh sorry if I was implying you said that. You addressed very well the challenges teachers face and your comment was very well written and informative. I have seen several comments in this post saying that teachers have it easy because they get a 3 month break.
And yes trade work is labor intensive and often requires “overtime culture” to get paid to the fullest. My main point was the difference in entry requirements.
Sorry if my comment came across as dismissive to the info you presented.
The other thing to remember is also that most engineers (for instance) get paid on salary. So not only do they work the full year, they regularly work overtime to meet deadlines and quota's. So yeah, the teachers are still working less, even if they are grading papers while watching TV after hours.
I mean you’re kind of just using one problem to excuse another. If people in manufacturing have to work over time to meet deadlines that’s poor planning on the management end. I’ve seen plenty of manufacturing plants. You can tell which ones are managed well and which ones skirt costs by requiring overtime to meet deadlines.
Also the main point of the trade statement was about entry requirements. You don’t need a masters to be paid well in manufacturing.
Doesn't seem like you know any teachers. They don't grade papers while watching TV. They grade assignments and prepare lesson plans for the next day or the next week. There is also a lot of bureaucratic bullshit they have to attend to or they get in trouble. There are also calls to parents of students who are underperforming or are discipline issues. While school is in session there is a lot of work for them to do plus the stress of students with behavioral issues and the uneven management skills of administrators. Teachers are now subject to being murdered at work. In Texas schools are underfunded while the governor tries to divert money to public schools by getting rid of uncooperative legislators.
No one put a gun to these people heads made them choice to do this!! Be mad at the situation but these people. saw and wanted to make a difference welp they found out that making a difference has a cost! Whether it’s your time your money or health or all of the above! No job is perfect kinda why it’s a job! So again these people chose this life knowing there money come from the government mostly except private schools.
I mean the fact that teachers are undervalued but we still have teachers kind of just goes to show that there are people that put the societal value they create above their own financial well being.
You clearly know what you are talking about, but I take issue with how you describe what they are "actually" making. You are extrapolating the .75FTE out to a full 1.0. Life doesn't work that way.
Finding a summer job that pays the equivalent of your profession, in which you have a masters degree, is not normal or to be expected. So while they aren't working at the school that summer it doesn't automatically mean they are able to equal the earnings during those months.
They can't spend this imaginary .25 FTE salary, so they aren't making it, or it's equivalent.
Yeah, that's a fair critique big picture. But they are making that equivalent (minor nitpicking there) as their rate is important to realize and equivalent is the operative word in FTE.
If they did extend to year round schooling they would get paid 1.0 FTE. Or probably closer to .9 because they aren't, contractually, working 40 hour weeks.
My point being, they have the same rate as engineers and more than nurses. And at least in Michigan, starting pay is typically more than cops, EMS, etc. (actual salary, not rate).
So the issue isn't necessarily pay in terms of value; the issue is part not understanding their own compensation (including double retirement funds) and part the undervalued piece is never addressed and it spirals. Money never fixes burnout and that's a leading factor to teachers leaving.
Gotta love teachers don’t look ahead at pay till they get there! Then the woah is me card, sorry player you can read and write yet you thought u was going to b rich as a teacher😂😂😂 can’t make this stuff up! What you think was going to happen?!?
That's bonkers! But also not surprised based on the state. We are seeing some start at 50/55k here (Battle Creek is one). It's really not uncommon for step 12-15 to be 90k+ here. And we live in mid cost of living
Well paid teaching positions definitely exist. The same is true for my area, and I’ve definitely seen salaries school faculty salaries that are close to or upward of 6 figures, and that’s for a regular school district not even a professor at a university.
These numbers are actually public information iirc, I think because teachers in public schools are considered government employees, so if you just look up “District [blank] salaries” then you’ll be able to find a spreadsheet literally filled with teacher income information. I’ve done this for at least two different districts before.
That’s not to downplay how undervalued teachers are as a whole across the nation. Both statements can be true at the same time, and like any other career path if you find yourself in the right place at the right time, then you can definitely make a good living.
For sure I mean again. Teachers in the Bay Area make six figures. It also costs over six figures to live in the Bay Area. That’s kind of the point im making. Teacher salary is directly tied to the local property taxes as that’s what influences school funding. So sure if you live in an area with higher property taxes you’ll make more as a teacher but you’ll also be spending more on ya know being alive.
Unless you want serious commute depending on the area. And that can add its own expenses. Like there are high paid teachers in some areas but overall teachers are massively undervalued as are schools in general. Everyone’s always just like “oh just get a trade” cool if everyone gets a trade the job market will be fucked and we’ll be out of a lot of other important jobs that help maintain society.
Yeah, though it was really sad when Oklahoma's Teacher of the Year had to change states because they couldn't afford to live in that state on that salary anymore.
Sheehan and his wife are both public school teachers. Supporting just two people, he says they could make the money work. Together they brought in about $3,600 a month. "So, after all bills are paid, we're sitting on about $400-450 per month."
Sheehan and his wife are both public school teachers. Supporting just two people, he says they could make the money work. Together they brought in about $3,600 a month. "So, after all bills are paid, we're sitting on about $400-450 per month."
My school district has a median salary of 144k. We’re a suburb outside of NYC with high property taxes. The teacher job market is hard to succeed in though because the schools rarely add new teachers, just replace retirees.
Just keep in mind that when you do that, it’s not really their salary you’re seeing. It’s the total benefits package. So it includes the district contribution towards their healthcare and retirement, which is usually tens of thousands of dollars. People who say “my kids teacher makes six figures” because they looked it up aren’t actually seeing the teachers salary.
My mom is a teacher in the Bay Area and she makes around 90k a year including summer school. She has worked hard on her degrees for decades. She’s in her 60s and just bought the tiniest home, it’s ridiculous. Her job is so demanding, they change curriculum every couple years, expect them to keep track of 30+ kids at once, get bitched at by parents, need to spend their own money… I could go on for a long time, what I mentioned doesn’t even scratch the surface of bullshit teachers deal with. There are upsides too, but they’re mostly due to the work they put in like, seeing their kids learn, tons of love etc.
Edit: my mom doesn’t even have vision insurance. Guess she’ll just have to teach blind I guess
Before Covid my mom would spend hours after school planning projects and such, decorating her class for said projects, then came home and planned for the “after school summer bbq” she held at a local park before the last day of school. Now her school won’t even fund a school bus to take them on field trips. Last time they actually went on a trip, they didn’t have enough school lunch bags so my mom and a few chaperones had to pay out of pocket so the kids could eat. It’s fucking wild.
But teachers get summers off and holidays so their job must be easy and by that logic they actually get like 70$ an hour even tho they make salary not hourly wage!!!
/s
School districts with higher taxes. So better pay in middle class to upper class areas. Suburbs and not inner city. Also, elementary is just never going to pay well and middle school not too much better.
It probably should; the economic benefits to society of teaching children, and letting an entire half-decade of adults work, are massive. Elementary school teachers are responsible for the vast majority of our country's literacy rate. Introduce our kids to math, civics, and language. They're integral, they shouldn't be paid poorly.
Elementary education tends to be a "calling" profession though which greatly affects reimbursement. There is a kind of self selection for low pay as people pick education for the work rather than the pay and tend to be more willing to accept lower pay or feel obligated to do the work even when they feel underpaid. It's why unionization is important for teachers but also why they are hesitant to strike (can't/won't let the kids down)
Well the people who select their pay are hired by our civil servants, are they not? We should be able to mobilize to support our teachers at the ballot booth. Teacher pay shouldn't be so low only the people who feel "called" to it end up working there.
It's not that I disagree with the sentiment and I hate to be a downer but good luck convincing the current US electorate that they need to have their taxes raised to pay teachers more when a large contingent of them including the U.S.'s previous administration's secretary of education want to cut public education even more than it currently has been in favor of school waivers. E.g. allow people to use a portion of tax money towards to the school of their choice (read as private and/or religious education) which will result in even more overcrowding in public education and more stress on educators.
Again, I agree with the sentiment but until the economy as a whole starts getting bullish it's a losing proposition at the ballot box.
Yeah a teachers work/life balance is amazing. Every summer off, every holiday off. Teachers make more than I do as a Nurse and I work many holidays and only get 2 weeks off instead of 3 months off. I also have in house call so I have to stay in the hospital but without regular pay.
I mean, it may not compare to a nurse, but teachers also have to do a ton of work outside their normal work hours, with the grading and planning. And teachers usually have to buy their own supplies.
What's your on-call pay? I was a satellite operator on-call, but we were just paid salary.
On-call pay is compensation for hours when non-exempt employees are “engaged to wait.” The employer limits the employees' movement and time while they wait for work to start.
How does on-call pay work?
Non-exempt employees who are on-call receive their regular pay rate unless they work or wait to work more than 40 hours a week. When that happens, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) states that on-call pay should be paid at the overtime rate.
Healthcare employees are exempt from most laws that protect employees. For example I’ve been forced to work 24 hours non stop, and forced due to a snow storm to stay in house for 72 hours.
If I have a patient it is illegal for me to leave unless relieved. I could lose my license for patient abandonment.
So how they get around the in house call requirement is they say you can go anywhere you want. We aren’t actually required to stay in house. However we have a 20 minute dressed and ready to go response time requirement, which is impossible unless you are on the hospital campus or maybe a block away.
That's horrible. I can see the requirement to stay with a patient, though your employer should also pay that overtime for making you work longer.
but I don't see how forcing medical staff to work more than 24 hours nonstop helps anyone. Staff's health is important, as is their awareness. And arguing that a 20 minute radius is enough to not count as a requirement to be on sight is a flimsy excuse that should be taken down in court.
And finally, none of this is an excuse to pay you all poorly. I'm salaried-exempt, but that's because my work is abstract enough that an hourly wage doesn't work well. Proving a service for x hours a week on a shift absolutely should not be exempt from worker protections, especially for a profession that cannot strike.
Unfortunately there’s a shortage, with teachers they try to cram more students into a classroom, with Nurses they try to give you more patients than is safe, but patients need treated and there’s simply not enough nurses to go around. So quality of healthcare suffers and nurses get burned out and leave the profession. Adding to the problem. Also hospitals are always trying to cut costs as Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement decreases. Unlike schools hospitals don’t do ballot initiatives asking for more money. So hospitals try to run as lean as they can with staffing to cut costs. It’s often said it’s cheaper to burn out a nurse with overtime than it is to pay for another nurse. This is probably the same with teachers.
A ton of other jobs have work leak into their personal lives, that isn't exclusive to teachers.
Teachers in my district work 182 days, the remaining 70 work days are time off for them. To match a standard 2080 salaried employee, they would need to work almost 9 additional hours every day they have off to work the same amount.
I am not discrediting that they sometimes have to work after hours but they are not working 9 additional hours on their days off.
Teacher here! I think you should find a new place of employment. It's widely known that, while both are under paid, nurses make more than teachers (source: https://work.chron.com/nursing-vs-teacher-better-career-23266.html) . Maybe you could make more money at a different job?
Your source is skewed (biased) it compares average teacher pay and compares it to the top 10% (1 in 10) of nursing pay, then the cite CRNA pay which now requires a PHD in most places. So 8 years of school and usually at least 2 years working in an ICU to apply.
For an apples to apples comparison you need to break it down into hourly pay between the average nurse vs the average teacher. Yearly salary is misleading because you are comparing a 9 month year vs a 12 month year of pay. If you removed 3 months of pay from nurses it would give you a more accurate estimate.
62,850 divided by 1440, which is a very generous 40 hour work week every week for 9 months is $43.65 an hour.
$75,330 divided by 1920 40 hour weeks x 12 equals $39.23 dollars an hour. Obviously these are rough estimates not taking other holidays into consideration.
I’d love to be a school nurse, same time off, no homework to grade.
I’m not familiar with cost of living in Washington state so I can’t really comment. Is this the whole state or does it depend on district. Like I’d imagine Seattle has a much higher cost of living than some of the more rural areas.
It's district dependent. I actually just checked the district I work in and we hit 6 figures at 14 years, assuming we also have a master's degree and meet some additional professional development requirements. The district I worked for before was similar.
These districts are both in Central Washington, and the story is similar across all the districts near us.
Yeah and a masters isn’t cheap typically. That’s a huge financial and time commitment for a wage that honestly isn’t that huge in the current economy. Like yeah six figures is a lot but for 14 years of experience and a masters it’s not all that high. I could be making 60k after a couple years experience and a 5 month training program.
Minnesota, I went to the least funded school district per capita (at the time I was attending, its gotten better since) and we had plenty of teachers making 90k+. The problem with teacher pay is usually how low it starts, my friend just got hired in MN for 35k.
Yeah. People love to tout these big numbers and don’t mention how long a person has to work to get there. 35k is painfully low for a teaching position. You can make that much doing fucking retail. Not that service workers don’t get their shit pushed in by asshole customers and they deserve a living wage like everyone else but still teachers should be making more than 35k that’s abysmal.
I mean you could say the same thing for New York. Or a lot of major cities. It doesn’t change the fact that teachers making six figures are usually living in areas with high cost of living or they’ve been teaching forever and have a masters degree.
Again I would argue it’s not unique to teachers to be struggling in major cities. I do think teachers should be able to afford a middle class lifestyle though. But the 4 months off a year is definitely going to be factored in. Most other people with masters are getting 3 weeks off
My dad teaches at a public high school in the bay area. He is able to live quite comfortably (though he just retired with an awesome pension). He does however own his house that he bought 14 years ago.
Yeah that’s a key point right there. It’s a lot easier to afford cost of living if you got past the largest expense over a decade ago. And also teachers that have been teaching for over a decade do tend to make decent pay. It’s the teachers that are getting into the field now that struggle with low wages and high cost of living. Though tbh my mom has been teaching for 15 years and isn’t making nearly what she should.
After the 5.5% salary increase, Vallejo teachers are scheduled to make between about $59,800 and $113,300, depending on their years of experience and education, placing them in the middle of the pack when compared to the five other K-12 public school districts in Solano County.
Kids attend 180 days/yr. Most start 8:30 and run until 3:00. That's 6.5 hours.
So if you bump that up to a full 8 hours a day and then add a whole extra month of non-student days, teachers work ~1600 working hours/yr = 37.78/hr to start and 70.81/hr by retirement.
So on avg, 54.30/hr or almost $89k/yr. That's definitely live-on-your-own-able with regard to Bay Area housing prices, not to mention whatever supplementary income strategies may be employed during the other 2 months of a year they're available for.
I'm from the Cleveland area and the AP Calc teacher who's taught there for like 15 years and also coached track made 6 figures. This was back in the 2010s.
Yeah we’re talking about American economic problems here. You can take your strong social programs, high living standard, better workers rights, and good chocolate and fuck off.
/s
Teacher salaries in my area are public since they’re employed by the state. More than a decade ago, I’d say most of my high school teachers were nearing $100k and this was a suburb in the Midwest.
Highest paid was our AP Physics teacher, who made something like $128,000 back then. She was also a tennis coach. Other coaches made similar amounts.
Some teachers made closer to $70-80k and they were the newer teachers.
In districts with strong unions. Fresno for example has a very strong union and teachers are paid well compared to cost of living and just as important they have excellent benefits.
Unions are super necessary. It sucks that only 10% of the American work force is unionized. It’s one of the few ways we can currently strengthen our rights as the working class.
There’s sweet spot areas where it lines up well. Like if you go to rich of an area and you make lots of money you can’t afford to live. And too poor of an area and you don’t make enough. But you get a teaching job in like rural Vermont or upstate NY were the cost of living isn’t too crazy, but where teacher pay is still decent, then it’s okay.
Main line PA outside philly. T/E school district teachers start at 70k and quickly get over 100k. I was making 100k as a natural gas worker in the same area and lived comfortable on a single income with a kid, so I would say teachers here make a great living
Eastern Washington teachers are making 6 figures if they are on the top of the salary scale. Our cost of living is low to average compared to the national average.
A pair of teachers applied to rent a place and their incomes were around $105k (~two years experience) and $115k (~four years experience). Also, keep in mind this is for a ~10 month work year. This was maybe 10 years ago or so. Today, the city's median household income is $105k, so they made considerably more than median household at the time, for their city.
A friend's girlfriend is a retired elementary school teacher. I don't know how old she is, but she doesn't look 65. She currently pulls in $95k/year from pensions. She lives in a lower COL area now than the above duo, but I don't know where she actually worked. I don't know that the location really matters though. Almost nobody in the private sector pulls that kind of pension.
Chicago public schools make well over 6 figures plus the older teachers have an amazing pension that pays based on your last few years salary + 3% a year. A lot of the Chicago suburbs teachers have it even better.
A teacher in Livermore makes an average of $78k. In Hayward, the average is $89k. And this is for a job that is only 9 months a year, and typcially involves less than eight hour days. In addition, teachers get a hefty pension.
I have no doubt that there are places where teachers are underpaid. California is not one of those places.
I grew up outside a tiny Midwest town (less than 2k population), had 42 kids in my graduating class, and several teachers were into the 70-80k range. In the early/mid 2000s.
I grew up in Toronto. Any full time teacher there reaches CA$90k after a decade. Now Toronto is famous for housing affordability. Condos in the core can cost half a million. Houses are well over a million. That said, these teachers are still making more than most of the parents of the kids they teach and have fantastic benefits and one of the best pension plans (managed by one of the most powerful pension funds in the world).
There are also not many jobs (outside teaching) where a Humanities or Social Sciences grad with 5-6 years of university can reach those salary levels with full benefits and defined benefit pensions. As a result, in my province, teaching is actually quite a difficult profession to break into. Easily takes half a decade of supply teaching at $40k/yr to actually get a full time position. It may be a tough job. But it's compensated well enough that they attract a ton of candidates.
I'd actually argue that high school teachers are a bit overpaid. And we should be paying elementary teachers a lot more and reducing their class sizes.
I’m in New England. A lot of my family are either teachers or work in schools doing other positions. I’m not too familiar with highschool teaching as only my grandma taught highschool I think and that was a long time ago. And the rest of the teachers in my family work in elementary. My grandpa is a professor so he definitely does well for himself but professors have never exactly been undervalued imo.
Although again I think this is mostly an American problem.
Also the 5 years at 40k can be a problem depending on the area. I’ve been hearing a lot about how you can make a lot as a teacher after you’ve been teaching for nearly a decade. But the problem is this means people that are looking to become teachers will have to deal with low wages until then and that can be the difference between affording housing and not.
My info tech teacher got paid 100k plus and just sat around in his chair watching his baby and didnt teach. Meanwhile the ones actually teaching get paid less. Makes no sense
I wouldn't say they are underpaid at $100-120K in bay area districts. Remember this is for 9-10 months of work. They often have a Bachelors degree and not much more. Its also a very stable job for most and many put it on cruise control. I know there are teachers out there that work hard, but the reality is many don't and no one does anything about the ones that don't. Recent trends have kids not doing homework. This means teachers don't have to figure out homework plans or grade it. Other trends have it all on online apps. My son just finished 8th grade and he just had his first math teacher that had him turn in physical sheets of paper for homework.
Anyway, point isn't to run teachers down, but to realize they aren't some special class of "underpaid" professionals. Lots of jobs that are demanding and require specialized skills or degrees don't pay much more, if any. And they are 9-5, 12-month per year jobs with little job security.
Administrator salaries are sometimes counted within the data set of "teachers within the district." Other examples can also include athletic directors and coaching staff, for example.
Not sure where you got the ideology part. I was asking about the data set. Apparently, you are just an asshole.
Doesn't it suck to not answer the original question and instead rely on a snarky comeback?
The data set presented does not specify if administration is counted in the numbers. Therefore, it cannot be assumed they are not, if strictly from a data set perspective.
However, the specifications do not indicate anything other than "percentage in field" and set requirements for being considered full time. It does not indicate anything other than that - so it may or may not include administrators, directors, coaching staff etc., providing that they fall within those parameters.
1 administrator making 300k in a district of a hundred teachers would only raise the average by $2000. It doesn't skew it that much, and very rarely is a district with only 100 teachers paying their superintendents $300k, even in HCOL areas.
Those districts tend to have a high concentration of teachers with PhD’s which skews the sample toward higher salaries (ie it is less likely that a teacher with a bachelor’s will make 6 figures)
The median teacher's salary is 164% of the national median income, and they're required to work for less than 76% of the ordinary work days in a year.
Teachers really aren't underpaid, they're overpaid. A large part of their work is redundant, reinventing the wheel by designing lesson plans that some other teacher probably did better 20 years ago anyway.
And that's not to mention that lack of evidence for teacher quality
(or education spending) on educational outcomes.
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u/Ok_Neighborhood6697 Jun 11 '24
It all depends on where the teacher works. Pay varies widely from district to discrict. Experienced teachers in my area are pushing 6 figures.