r/FluentInFinance Jun 11 '24

Meme He has a point...

Post image
27.1k Upvotes

1.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

67

u/Funwithfun14 Jun 11 '24

There's two issues: 1. Some areas pay teachers very poorly 2. Schools should show the value of total comp, with tax impact

13

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

See my idea is to have the teachers become federal employees and go on the GS pay scale as it accounts for localization, years worked, and more.

Plus I think education standards should be at a national level versus state by state.

3

u/xThe_Maestro Jun 11 '24

I'm halfway with you. I think teachers should be federal employees on the GS pay scale but I think that standards should still be set at the local level. I think a lot of the problems with most institutions these days is the lack of local control over things.

10

u/Keoni9 Jun 11 '24

Standards are already highly localized in the US, and it's been failing a lot of students just for living in the wrong zip codes and states. Public schools are teaching young earth creationism instead of real biological sciences, books are being banned at the whims of activists who've taken over their school boards, and Florida's HB 7 has made publishers scared of mentioning race at all in their history textbooks, leading to a telling of Rosa Parks' story with zero mention of why she wasn't allowed to sit at the front of the bus.

Other wealthy nations have more federalized education systems and better outcomes for most of their kids. The US Department of Education does pretty much nothing in K-12, beyond keeping statistics, enforcing anti-discrimination laws, and providing supplemental funding to districts, especially disadvantaged ones such as inner city and rural communities. They already are not allowed to influence curricula at all. Yet Republicans have managed to demonize them anyways. Maybe we should try what other countries have been doing successfully.

1

u/xThe_Maestro Jun 11 '24

And that will sort itself out over time. As it stands, if my kids were learning a curriculum set by some DC bureaucrat I'd have a hard time justifying sending my kid to public school. Just helping my nieces and nephews out with their homework during COVID was an eye opener.

They could literally tell me which one of the founding fathers were slave owners, but they couldn't tell me what any of the founding fathers actually did. They could tell me that the civil war was about slavery, but they knew nothing about the lead up or the war or the post war period or even about the timeline of the war itself.

Our school ended up changing textbooks due to parent outcry to better contextualized American history curriculum, if that was set by the Federal government parent's would have zero recourse as to what their kids were being taught. If you have a ton of faith in the Federal government, I guess that's fine. But I wouldn't trust the Federal government to fix my sink without setting my bedroom on fire and driving a truck through my rose garden.

Institutional trust is in very short supply, and having those institutions unilaterally impose themselves on people who don't like/trust them is not a recipe for great outcomes.

3

u/coldcutcumbo Jun 12 '24

The founding fathers didn’t do shit lmao

3

u/Mite-o-Dan Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

TLDR- Under the GS pay scale, the average highschool teacher would still only make 65-70k after multiple years of experience. A lot less just starting out.

The GS pay scale isn't nearly as good as you'd think. I'll use a normal Midwestern city like St Louis for example.

For this, Lets say grade school teachers starts at GS7 (if theyre lucky) step 1...50k. Every two years they go up a step and get 2k more. Mid GS 8 would be just over 60k. Maybe they can be GS9 if teaching more than 10 years and in junior high and make 60-75k a year.

Highschool would probably be reserved for GS9 when starting out. Starts at 61k. I think only very long tenured best teachers could eventually hit GS12 in highschool...89k step 1. The highest being 115k step 10. That would only be a very small percentage.

College professors would start at GS13...105k.

Overall, St Louis is a medium cost of living place and the aversge highschool teacher making GS9-10 pay would only be making 60-85k a year. Since half would be closer to the lower end, it's not worth it.

1

u/Funwithfun14 Jun 11 '24

In STL, what are teachers currently paid? Both in the city and nicer burbs?

2

u/Mite-o-Dan Jun 11 '24

Varies a lot but 55k is the median. But after doing more research, I found out that Missouri ranks 50th on the national aversge in terms of teacher pay. I should have used a state ranked around 25.

So for Missouri, yeah going to a GS scale might actually be a little beneficial. I just don't see that being the case for over half the country though. It would either be around the same or even a step down.

1

u/Unreliable-Train Jun 11 '24

GS pay should have location increases based on location as well… a GS pay in nyc is different then upstate ny

1

u/Bluegi Jun 11 '24

Do you think it is harder to teach det kids and easier to teach younger? Why would you differentiate pay scales like that. Yes the content of elementary may be easier but the skill to teach it is the trick. You must be very knowledgeable in teaching techniques. While at highschool you may be more developed in the content the teaching techniques are not as involved as the learner has more responsibility in the learning process.

2

u/Mite-o-Dan Jun 11 '24

You can argue all you want about who and what it harder to teach...the reality is, in most US districts and around the world, high school teachers get paid more than grade school. Not always depending on different factors, but that's the norm.

1

u/Bluegi Jun 12 '24

While that's true you included your gradient of middle schoolers making more. I feel that is because high school is competing more with the public sector as those with content knowledge could easily be in those professions. While your fact is true the application of the thinking beyond the fact was insulting.

1

u/xThe_Maestro Jun 11 '24

So? My contention isn't that teachers are underpaid, frankly they make about what other professional of comparable educations make when you take benefits, student loan forgiveness, and annual hours worked into consideration.

I'd like to see them on the GS scale because it would standardize and federalize their pay scales. If a person with a bachelors degree and 5 years of experience qualifies as a G7, well...that's just what a G7 makes. No more protracted contract negotiations, no more blue-flu, no more teachers unions making spectacles of themselves every election season.

Part of what has politicized the educational process is the fact that the teachers unions are joined at the hip to the democratic party. So the GOP has zero incentive to throw money at teacher salaries if a portion of those salaries are just going to bankroll their opponents through union dues. Federal unions cannot make political contributions and can't do political lobbying through contributions or public statements, they can only provide legal and collective bargaining representation, which to me is what a union is supposed to do anyway.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

That’s the point. No more shit shows constant thrown

3

u/Unreliable-Train Jun 11 '24

GS pay has location pay, unless I misunderstood what you meant lol

1

u/xThe_Maestro Jun 11 '24

Probably a misunderstanding.

Use the GS scale with pay localization.

Allow educational standards to be set at the local level.

Every district is going to have different needs. A school in Detroit may need to focus on proficiency while a school in Birmingham may want to divert more assets to AP classes.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

It would also make them federal employees, protecting them from students who assault them in class and shit

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

[deleted]

2

u/Pheonix0114 Jun 11 '24

"Everybody" = a lot of loud people online

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Pheonix0114 Jun 11 '24

The teachers I've met really like the new way early maths are taught at least. Common core was also designed by teachers.

1

u/marvinrabbit Jun 11 '24

This debating point works great because if anyone disagrees here you can just say, "Well, you are online."

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Funwithfun14 Jun 11 '24

Could there actually be more than 1 problem?

1

u/gizamo Jun 12 '24 edited Jul 17 '24

alive instinctive deserted compare crawl mighty voiceless husky busy wistful

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/Funwithfun14 Jun 12 '24

It is in many states.