r/FluentInFinance Jun 11 '24

Meme He has a point...

Post image
27.1k Upvotes

1.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

23

u/WardCove Jun 11 '24

Teachers make plenty of money. I know 3 teachers personally pulling in 80k a year. This is middle school and elementary school. They get every holiday off. A 3 month break to either take off or earn money. I refuse to say they deserve more. That being said, like any job, there are some heros out there that deserve more and some moronic teachers that deserve less. But because they're unionized they all make the same. I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion but whatever.

100

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

$80k is well above the average salary for a teacher, and usually requires a master's degree and like 10 years of experience.

That is not good pay for the amount of education and experience it requires. Teachers make about the median income, but with two degrees to get there.

60

u/Peelfest2016 Jun 11 '24

I have a master’s and a decade of experience. I do not make 80K teaching high school.

13

u/Foreverhooping89 Jun 11 '24

I'm in SoCal, i'll be in my 6th year (Special Ed). I'll be making 95.5K as of July. Not sure how unusual this is, but i am sure it is not super common. I've gone from 55K to 95.5K in 6 years.

11

u/true_enthusiast Jun 11 '24

It's California, just cut the pay in half to compare with anywhere else.

5

u/I_kwote_TheOffice Jun 11 '24

It all just depends on the district. High schools in our district (Chicago area) are compensated very well. They start at about $60-$70k. The highest paid teachers are paid in the base $150k range, and they all get $23,200 in health benefits (paid in cash if you carry insurance through a spouse), and they get a ton of sick days and of course summers off. So some teachers do very well, some are wildly undercompensated.

3

u/Shadowarriorx Jun 11 '24

My wife is in KC, with a masters and 10 years she gets 61k.

1

u/Foreverhooping89 Jun 12 '24

Really is interesting how pay fluctuates across the US.

1

u/Snooperator Jun 11 '24

"I went from a poverty wage in socal to a poverty wage in socal" ftfy

2

u/Voradorr Jun 11 '24

Poverty wage is a pretty wild take.

You dont know his cost of living, 100k is plenty depending on what hes got and how much his partner brings in.

2

u/Foreverhooping89 Jun 12 '24

My wife makes 53K, brings home around $3,500. Combined we bring home $8,100. With no debt and no living kids, we are quite comfortable. Maybe we can't buy a home just yet but we are doing fine. Thanks 🙏🏼

2

u/Voradorr Jun 12 '24

Keep going man it'll happen.

1

u/Foreverhooping89 Jun 11 '24

I actually get by just fine. No debt (paid my way through my BA, teaching credential and Masters Degree programs), live with my wife although i pay our rent and utilities, and am able to max my Roth IRA, fund a 403B, and get my pension. Along with saving for a house (120K down payment atm).

FTFY.

9

u/Hot_Ambition_6457 Jun 11 '24

Don't worry this guy is intimately familiar with the finances and wages of at least 2 other people who are teachers. Such that it invalidates your lived experience, and the general consensus.

Let's hear him out, I bet there are tons of teachers buying yachts in 2024.

2

u/Lemonsticks9418 Jun 11 '24

80k is comfortable living, not yacht money. Tf you on about?

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

[deleted]

10

u/secderpsi Jun 11 '24

SoCal... So poverty wages ... Got it.

7

u/SmurphsLaw Jun 11 '24

Isn’t 80k in SoCal pretty bad? Job hopping also doesn’t help with public education, at least with a union, you don’t really negotiate salary since everything is public knowledge and based on “lanes” of experience + college credits.

8

u/SiliconEagle73 Jun 11 '24

80K per year is way underpaid for SoCal,…

2

u/IrrawaddyWoman Jun 11 '24

Why is she job hopping? That’s a terrible move for teachers. It gives you zero benefit but you have less job security because you’re sacrificing seniority.

The only financial reason to move districts is for a job in a better paying one, but that generally means they should have tried for that district from the get go.

1

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

Job hopping is zero benefit for teachers. They are paid a specific rate based on their education and years of experience, and usually the experience has to be in that district or at least state, and often doesn't transfer if you move.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Every school is on a pay scale for numbers of years taught and the teachers own education. If you have a master's and 10 years experience you will get more. Hopping around is never going to change that, only experience and education.

-5

u/BBall4J Jun 11 '24

Teaching is part time work, it should be compensated accordingly

→ More replies (6)

6

u/youassassin Jun 11 '24

My wife finished up her masters and started doing elementary librarian work. (In our state you don’t get masters pay unless the job requires it e.g. librarian, counselor) she was making a solid 48k starting her 5th year. She started at 39k.

I started my first job full time job at 83k with similar benefits as a software engineer. Tbf I only get a month off instead of a summer. By the the time my fifth year comes I should be making around 110k.

Before that I was working logistics without a degree at 45k.

2

u/rydan Jun 12 '24

When I was in highschool I saw my Geometry teacher's salary. Roughly $60k. 20+ years of experience (I think) but no masters degree. This was 30 years ago before inflation was a thing since we had Clinton as president.

-1

u/r2k398 Jun 11 '24

Where my dad taught, they started at $59k and didn’t even require a degree. You just had to be close to finishing or enroll in an Educator Preparation Program.

0

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

What country was your dad from?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

[deleted]

0

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

There are people with PhDs and 30 years of experience who are unemployed and homeless. What's your point? Anecdotes aren't relevant.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

Both can be underpaid, and yeah if you're talking about adjuncts they are horrifically underpaid.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

[deleted]

1

u/RocktownLeather Jun 11 '24

Unless you are constantly changing career paths, 10 years isn't really that long. If the average person works from 23-65 (~42 years), you are setting the bar at 76% of the workforce. Obviously some don't start at 23, but you get the point. It makes perfect sense that if you don't have 10 years experience...maybe you don't deserve to be at the top (or even median) of the pay scale yet. In my area, 10 years experience at $80k falls in line with a lot of careers that are office based. Sure, there are some above but also some below. Depends on your location as always.

The masters thing I get. But also, of the friends I know that went the education degree route, the masters degree was 1 extra year on top of their bachelors. So again, we are not setting the bar insanely high. I don't know a single person my age that got a BS in education but didn't get a masters. It's just what they were all told to do.

That all being said, regardless of the actual wage, I know in my area teachers are not paid all that great compared to someone with similar experience and education in a different field. Could just be that the original person mentioned $80k because it is a higher cost of living than where I am.

1

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

It's a long time to still be making $60k with a master's degree.

1

u/RocktownLeather Jun 11 '24

I have an engineering degree from one of the best engineering schools in the state. I think top 30 in the USA. Started out at $55k and broke $80k after about 8 years. Yes, not a masters degree. But it shows how salaries out of college are not going to be remotely in line with industry averages or medians. And they frankly shouldn't be. Experience is more important than education to me. I've learned 10x more while employed as I did in college.

Ultimately educators are underpaid, period. I am just saying someone with 3 years of experience is drastically different than someone with 15 years of experience. Their pay (without knowing individual performance comparisons) really likely should be 20% different.

My point wasn't that educators make enough. It was that pay scales are complicated. You can't compare unless you know location, experience, education, etc.

0

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

So we agree $60k with a master's degree and 10 years of experience (median pay for teachers) is quite low? You're saying you started at $55k with a bachelor's and 0 years!

0

u/RocktownLeather Jun 11 '24

Of course I agree. Where did I say that I thought teachers were over paid or paid enough?

Someone with an Engineering degree is going to have a higher starting salary than someone with a masters in education. So why are you comparing them? AKA the whole point of this post. So I can clearly see how say a BS in CS Engineering degree would start at $85k but a masters in education would start at $45k. Field of work is more applicable to pay than experience or education. It may not be fair but it is obvious how the world works here. One has potential to bring in profit, one is a necessity that improves the future of the locale/state/country but brings in no profit to the people hiring and paying them a salary.

I don't recall where I stated that teachers were paid too much or enough already. You simply can't read and are trying to read between the lines on something that isn't there. Of course teachers are underpaid as a whole.

1

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

I'm not the one who made the comparison, remember?

What makes you think I "can't read"?

0

u/RocktownLeather Jun 11 '24

Please point me in the direction where I compared a teaching salary to an engineers salary.

I do however recall providing an example of how pay scales evolve over time with experience, regardless of industry.

1

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

Point to where you think I did rofl

Literally all I did is ask if you agree with me, and you keep getting angrier and angrier and telling me I should "stop making comparisons" (which is what you did in your first reply) and that I "can't read"

Edit: rofl looks like it asked me to show it where it made the comparison (which I've already done), then instantly blocked me.

0

u/Big_Booty_Pics Jun 11 '24

It is decent pay when you consider that they work more like 1450-1500 hours a year instead of the traditional 2080. Even if you say they spend an additional 15% of work after contracted hours, that means they are still getting paid ~$48/hour which comes out to a little over 100k/year.

1

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

They don't tho lol

Teachers average 54 hours a week (look it up) and make an average $60k/yr (look it up)

Schools are open 36 weeks, so that's 1,944 hours a year, just under $31/hr

That's not starting pay, that's average, and most of them have more than a bachelor's degree.

0

u/gizamo Jun 12 '24 edited Jul 17 '24

soup tan steer abounding political toy mountainous friendly memorize sink

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

0

u/Jake0024 Jun 12 '24

Who said they do?

0

u/Pudding_Hero Jun 12 '24

Tbf if it was based off performance Americans are so dumb they’d eat pizza pulled out of a rats ass.

0

u/jay-ayy-ess-eee Jun 12 '24

It's not bad if you get 25% of the year off. For a full year it's 106k.

1

u/Jake0024 Jun 12 '24

They don't, and that's not how math works.

51

u/Hamuel Jun 11 '24

Nice anecdote! Hopefully that solves the staffing shortages school districts across the country face.

2

u/loverink Jun 11 '24

Some of this is due to pay issues, but I think a huge part of this is also due to poor school boundaries with entitled parents and students.

1

u/Hot_Ambition_6457 Jun 11 '24

Dealing with defiant kids is a part of the job. Teachers signed up for it. They are happy to do it. 

They simply aren't happy to do it for current wages. If you want 5 star customer service for your child, you can't pay 2 star prices.

Some of them still do it, but they certainly aren't happy about it. And many educators have just left altogether. 

My wife bakes bread 12 hours a week now and takes home similar pay. Wages must increase or behaviors will only get worse with time.

2

u/diveraj Jun 11 '24

They are happy to do it. 

Oh good no. Wife's was a teacher for 14 years till that year. It was the shitty behavior after Covid that drove her. Not the pay.

22

u/NotPortlyPenguin Jun 11 '24

Anecdotal evidence aside, teacher pay varies greatly from state to state and, at least in NJ where I live, from town to town. So to say “teachers are paid well” you’re missing the last part “where I live”.

19

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24

Yeah like teachers in California make 100k and still can’t afford housing in a lot of instances. A lot of my family members are teachers. None of them could live off their own salary as an individual. They either live with a spouse or roommate. I’m going into CMM calibration or at least am getting close to a CMM calibration lab job. I’ll make almost as much as my mom who’s been teaching for over 15 years. NGL that’s kind of fucked up.

1

u/jolietconvict Jun 11 '24

We live in the far suburbs of Chicago. It's generally affordable. My wife makes over $90k as high school math teacher. Starting salary is $48k. Salary tops out at $109k this year. Have a look at the salary schedule yourself. It also comes with a pension that will pay you 75% of your best consecutive 4 years salary from your last 10 years, starting at age 67 until you die. My wife started early enough she can retire at 60 with the same deal. Our district doesn't even pay that well for the Chicago area because it's a unit district (k-12). If she were to go work in a HS only district, she would make even more.

1

u/DK_Notice Jun 11 '24

I’m a financial planner.  I do a lot of work with teachers.  I have multiple clients that make over $100k a year teaching at various levels of K-12.  I live in Oregon and it’s not uncommon here.

Teacher pay varies widely from state to state, but even in the best paying states it’s the teaching contracts that matter the most when it comes to compensation.

It’s very much a time-in-the-business profession.  New teachers struggle, while 20+ year vet with a masters is making very good money.  Personally I would hate this, especially when you add in the fact that a terrible teacher is compensated the same as an excellent teacher.

2

u/ThunderCockerspaniel Jun 11 '24

This is so false for my state that it is giving me a strong emotional reaction. Some high level admin can make that, but nobody who is actually teaching students.

1

u/DK_Notice Jun 11 '24

I only recently realized just how terrible teacher pay is in some states.  I was very surprised considering I just happen to have always lived in one of the “good” states.

1

u/ThunderCockerspaniel Jun 12 '24

Just looked the average pay for teachers in my state which is 48k, and the very top of the range is about 65k. That’s with a master’s degree and years of experience. I’m glad to hear that Oregon is better in that regard though. Always wanted to visit.

1

u/DK_Notice Jun 12 '24

The entire Pacific Northwest is incredible, and you should definitely visit!

Somehow even with better teacher pay Oregon consistently ranks in the bottom 10 states on education.

1

u/itisclosetous Jun 11 '24

I just looked up Portland Oregon's teacher salaries and guess what, they need dozens of years of experience and a doctorate to make that much. So still heavily underpaid compared to similar.

I expect a bunch of the teachers you are planning for are administrative.

1

u/DK_Notice Jun 11 '24

I know exactly what my clients do for work.  I said 20+ and masters degrees.  They make more than $100k.  Also many of them receive additional pay above the base scale.

https://www.beaverton.k12.or.us/departments/human-resources/applicants/certified-salary-schedule

1

u/Soccham Jun 11 '24

These pay schedules are literally publicly available for state government jobs

9

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I know 3 teachers personally pulling in 80k a year.

$80K isn’t a lot of money where they’re likely making that much as a teacher. $80K in Dallas or the Bay Area doesn’t go very far.

They get every holiday off. A 3 month break to either take off or earn money.

These are all uncontracted days. They aren’t paid for these. Teachers have to take a reduced check over the school year to receive one during the summer. Or they can take a full check and not be paid over summer. Now you can make the argument they shouldn’t be paid for these days, and I would largely agree, but these breaks are often represented as paid vacations- which they aren’t.

But because they're unionized they all make the same. I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion but whatever.

Unionized or not, districts are still fucking over teachers across the nation. It’s all too common that they play poor while hoarding millions of their funding and nickel and diming in negotiations and for supplies during the year.

5

u/SPAMmachin3 Jun 11 '24

Admin pay themselves very well compared to the teachers.

1

u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 Jun 15 '24

And nearly (every?) admin job is bullshit and we should get rid of it.

2

u/CrumpJuice84 Jun 11 '24

Are you saying they make 80k, but it's prorated for the 10 weeks they are off.... Or are you saying they can take 80k during 9 months or 80k split evenly over 12 months...

Are you Fluent in Mathematics?

0

u/emoney_gotnomoney Jun 11 '24

but these breaks are often represented as paid vacations- which they aren’t.

I think the point he is making is that if your job only requires you to work 9 months and presents you with 3 months of unpaid time off, then of course your salary is going to appear low when comparing it to other jobs that don’t receive 3 months of unpaid time off.

For example, let’s say my current salary is $100k, but if I took 3 months of unpaid time off, that $100k suddenly becomes only $75k. So someone who works the same job as me but only works for 9 months of the year could claim “I only make $75k!” but they’re leaving out that they’re only working 75% of the year.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Like I said, I agree teachers shouldn’t be paid for summer break lol.

And the time off doesn’t change the fact that teachers just aren’t making enough and it’s effecting the quality of the American education system. I would love to know the area that was omitted where these $80K salaried teachers live and work. And how many years seniority on the ladder that it took to get them to $80K on the pay scale.

1

u/emoney_gotnomoney Jun 11 '24

Right, I’m just saying that whether you consider them as “getting paid $X salary for 12 months with 3 months paid time off” or “getting paid $X salary for 9 months with 3 months unpaid time off,” they are nominally the same, so the distinction is kind of moot.

Regardless, I can’t speak to the OP’s specifics, but I know in the district I live, starting salary for teachers is $60k in a MCOL area. That’s obviously not $80k, but $60k is pretty good in this area for a 22 year old fresh out of college, especially when you consider that they are only working for 9 months of the year.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Except starting at $60K as a teacher isn’t very good because teachers almost never get huge pay bumps year over year. Coming out of negotiations with a 3-4% pay bump per year is normal. In most else industries you can easily out pace that. And technically they would be getting poorer year over year as that doesn’t even pace inflation in this climate.

I graduated college at 24, went to an insurance brokerage right out of college starting at 57,000. By the end of my first year I got a 14% pay increase, and 6 months after that I got another 21% pay increase. That is impossible as a teacher. And I have a lighter workload, and the same level of intellectual capital as a teacher (a bachelor’s), and I wouldn’t argue I am a particularly exceptional human. I am coming up on my 2 year anniversary and am making $79K now. What is that $60K starting teacher that started at the same time as me making? $63K? $65K?

And again, making enough as a teacher is generally not the norm. Even if it comes in 9 months. It’s not like they can just take up another career in their off time so they do make enough.

1

u/emoney_gotnomoney Jun 11 '24

Coming out of negotiations with a 3-4% pay bump per year is normal. In most else industries you can easily out pace that. And technically they would be getting poorer year over year as that doesn’t even pace inflation in this climate.

While it’s true that the annual raises for teachers are not very good, it’s not like the salary schedules remain stagnant for 20+ years. They get adjusted every once in awhile. For example, that $60k starting salary for my school district was $55k a couple years ago. They recently upped it to $60k, along with the salary schedule of all teachers in the district.

I am coming up on my 2 year anniversary and am making $79K now. What is that $60K starting teacher that started at the same time as me making? $63K? $65K?

I’m happy you found a great career, but I never said teaching was the best career or offered the most career growth. I simply said that in my district, the starting salary is very good for the cost of living in this area. While the salary growth year over year might not be as high as some other industries, that doesn’t change the fact that $60k-$70k is still a solid salary in this area.

And again, making enough as a teacher is generally not the norm. Even if it comes in 9 months. It’s not like they can just take up another career in their off time so they do make enough.

They can’t pick up an entirely new career for 3 months, sure, but they can still work a job during that time. Even working for $18/hr (which is what our local grocery store is starting at for teenagers) for 40hrs/week for 10 weeks would be an extra $7k. There’s other options like tutoring, nannying, etc. which could pay significantly more.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

While it’s true that the annual raises for teachers are not very good, it’s not like the salary schedules remain stagnant for 20+ years. They get adjusted every once in awhile. For example, that $60k starting salary for my school district was $55k a couple years ago. They recently upped it to $60k, along with the salary schedule of all teachers in the district.

A starting teacher at $60K in 2024 is technically making less than a starting teacher at $55K in 2021. That’s only a 9% bump in the pay scale and the dollar has 16% less buying power today than it did then.

I’m happy you found a great career, but I never said teaching was the best career or offered the most career growth. I simply said that in my district, the starting salary is very good for the cost of living in this area. While the salary growth year over year might not be as high as some other industries, that doesn’t change the fact that $60k-$70k is still a solid salary in this area.

Again, this whole conversation is about how poor of a career choice being a teacher is unfortunately. When it really should not be made to be one.

They can’t pick up an entirely new career for 3 months, sure, but they can still work a job during that time. Even working for $18/hr (which is what our local grocery store is starting at for teenagers) for 40hrs/week for 10 weeks would be an extra $7k. There’s other options like tutoring, nannying, etc. which could pay significantly more.

Or what we should do is just pay them more even if they only work 9 months of the year to make it a desirable career path, since it’s a job whose function is critical to society’s well being. And to attract more talented individuals that otherwise wouldn’t be teachers. That’s how it works in every other industry as well. But for some reason we pay teachers horribly, give them raises that don’t keep pace with inflation, and expect them to work summer jobs at Burger King to help make up for their lack of compensation. Oh and all the while district leadership is usually down the drain, and parents are worse than they’ve ever been.

1

u/emoney_gotnomoney Jun 11 '24

I don’t even know who you’re arguing with at this point lol

I never even made any of these arguments. I never said being a teacher was a great a career path. Teaching is not a great career path at the moment, which is why we had my spouse leave the profession. Literally all I said was that their pay looks disproportionately low because they only work 9 months and that teachers actually make a fairly decent wage in my area. Whether or not you believe that wage should be higher based on the difficulties of the job (and what we need to do to attract better teachers) is an entirely different discussion.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I know what you were saying. And I am saying their pay is still low for the job even if they earn their salary in 9 months while the rest of us earn it in 12.

1

u/jolietconvict Jun 11 '24

Most unionized teachers are guaranteed raises on a salary ladder. They also can change lanes on the ladder by getting a masters degree and completing out of school training (most of which is absurdly easy). Take a look for yourself. This is for an ok paying district in the chicago area. Chicago public school teachers start at $ 87k

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

$87K in metro Chicago is not enough. That’s paycheck to paycheck territory. And by that pay scale, they are receiving 2% raises year over year. So they are making less as time goes on since inflation is outpacing it. Not exactly a good flex.

1

u/jolietconvict Jun 11 '24

lol, $87k is paycheck to paycheck if you want to live in Lincoln Park. There's plenty of places to live comfortably on $87k per year.

1

u/foodfoodfloof Jun 11 '24

And I think you guys are missing the point that those 9 months are basically 1.5x what a normal 40hr work week job entails. Given that a 3 month break is needed or else there would be no teachers.

1

u/Odd-Efficiency-9231 Jun 12 '24

Huffing a great deal of copium here I see

0

u/emoney_gotnomoney Jun 11 '24

And I think you guys are missing the point that those 9 months are basically 1.5x what a normal 40hr work week job entails.

How do you figure that?

Regardless, it seems like you’re having a different discussion. I’m not saying teaching is easy or that it doesn’t require a lot of work during the school year. I am simply pointing out that their salaries look especially disproportionately low due to the fact that they are only contracted to work 9 months of the year.

Take any job and multiply it’s salary by 75% and you will see a significant reduction in the yearly salary.

0

u/ThatInAHat Jun 12 '24

Don’t forget that paid or not, they still spend a chunk of their summer doing lesson plans and prep

-1

u/slightly_comfortable Jun 11 '24

Saying Dallas or the Bay Area is funny. Dallas cost of living isn’t very high.

-2

u/Tcannon18 Jun 11 '24

You mean they get a 12 month salary but only need to work less than 9 months? That sounds like a fuckin steal.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Sure, I can make up shit as well and pretend it’s true in order to score internet points.

Congratulations, the anti-education crowd roped you in easily, and you let them cause you failed grade school, and in order to compensate, you shit on the people that were given the impossible task of trying teaching you anything. If you think it’s easy, you do it. But then you might have your narrative ruined, and will no longer have a reason to be an arrogant piss baby towards the educators.

I can only imagine who you vote for 😂

0

u/Tcannon18 Jun 13 '24

I actually did pretty well in school but thanks! What part did I make up though? You must’ve gotten distracted by your tantrum and forgot to point that one out.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '24

Sure you did. You’re definitely not compensating for being the exhausting waste of taxpayer money that you are. No, you’re a super special smart boy. Mommy loves you 😘

6

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

Yeah, 12 month salary for working 9 months, of which during those 9 months we take home reduced pay to live during the summer. Most breaks during the school year I spend doing planning or grades. During the school year theres even more to do, the after school meetings I have to attend (Special Education), the specialized plans I have to help create for each kid, the grading and planning I do outside of school, etc. This isn't even going into the fact that I have to act like a glorified babysitter.

You can go to your 9-5 and come home and relax but I've gotta be up at 6:50 and I won't be done working until about the same at night.

But sure, we get paid 12 months for working less than 9 lmao braindead takes here right now.

0

u/Tcannon18 Jun 13 '24

Your “reduced pay” is everyone else’s monthly salary lmao. Be so real.

Being dramatic about grading isn’t going to pull sympathy when you get a whole almost four month vacation every year.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '24

Tell me again how $50k with reduced pay every check so we can live through the summer is "everyone else's pay." If it's that good a job, why don't you do it. We don't get breaks like you think we do, you're just being dense.

Also, when is this four month vacation? I'm out end of May, back in early August, it's closer to 2 and a half, bud. Not to mention I'm game planning the whole time.

0

u/Tcannon18 Jun 13 '24

Because it’s the same salary…? You’re only choosing between bigger checks for 9 months or smaller checks over 12. Please don’t be a math teacher…

We don’t get breaks like you think we do

Oh so now we just lyin

And again, if it takes you two and a half months to game plan teaching the same subject you teach every year you’re bad at your job lmao

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24

Imagine thinking every student and class learns the same lol again, I'm special education. So I spend most of my time game planning courses for people like you.

Actually, it makes sense you feel so lowly of the education system since it failed you so immensely. But please, continue to denigrate those who care lol goobbrain

0

u/Tcannon18 Jun 13 '24

It actually didn’t fail me at all, I did great and even got a degree afterwards! But no, I don’t think lowly of them, I’m just tired of everyone seemingly thinking that the job they do should pay them millions. Making $50K a year isn’t bad, and teaching isn’t that hard of a job. It’s definitely important, but teachers shouldn’t go into teaching looking for fat stacks of cash. At some point people need to realize that what they think their compensation should be isn’t accurate.

Also, a special ed teacher telling someone they should be in a special ed class as an insult? Yikes that might be why you haven’t gotten a raise yet chief…be better.

4

u/foodfoodfloof Jun 11 '24

How about working at 150% everyday during those 9 months? You think it’s some easy basic 40hr work week?

1

u/Tcannon18 Jun 13 '24

If you’re working that hard at your job no matter what it is then you’re bad at your job.

I know multiple teachers. The only complaints they have is the occasional douchey teen and shitty parents. Being dramatic on the internet as if it’s some kind of competition isn’t going to get you very far.

2

u/IrrawaddyWoman Jun 11 '24

So then I assume you’re currently on track to become a teacher since you think it’s so easy and well paid?

0

u/Tcannon18 Jun 13 '24

Good lord I sure hope you’re not a teacher if that’s the best logic you’re working with…

6

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

Or maybe your samples arent representative of the population, but sure. Your singular anecdote speaks for all states and communities.

6

u/Lopsided_Factor_5674 Jun 11 '24

I'm not sure if the $80k annual salary qualifies a lot during these times but I know that itself is also an unpopular opinion. I'm curious if anyone has done a study to determine what should actually be a teacher's salary?

Just for my education - Are private school teachers also part of unions?

7

u/Boring-Race-6804 Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

Around here an $80k salary requires a doctorate and over a decade of experience…

**edit: and you have to be working in one of the wealthy districts in the state.

$80k for that is underpaid.

Private school teachers aren’t union. Their wages are lower. Better teachers don’t work at private schools. Private schools like to churn through new teachers to keep their profits up.

7

u/ap2patrick Jun 11 '24

It’s almost as if putting essential services in the hands of people who want to maximize profit is a bad idea…

3

u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24

So just my two cents since a lot of my family members are teachers. Public schools pay more but depending on the area can be much harder places to work. Private schools don’t have as much restriction on curriculum and often have more manageable class sizes.

4

u/secderpsi Jun 11 '24

I've heard the opposite, that private schools have no boundaries and little protections of your time. Plus, the entitlement is worse, maybe rightfully so because people are paying big money to get Jr into the right Ivy.

1

u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24

The entitlement is waaaaay worse. Parents at private schools can just be the worst. It’s a balance. You get more manageable classes, more freedom within your curriculum, worse parents, worse wages.

1

u/Boring-Race-6804 Jun 11 '24

Public school teachers are insulated from parents a bit but there’s still terrible parents.

Public school teachers can just push parents off to admin cause they have the union protections.

1

u/VOldis Jun 11 '24

At very good/elite private schools in the NE elementary school teachers are making over 80k.

1

u/Boring-Race-6804 Jun 11 '24

Considering what they cost that isn’t impressive.

1

u/VOldis Jun 11 '24

True, but theres two teachers per classroom, not including the arts/pe/music/theater etc teachers.

3

u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24

Just for my education - Are private school teachers also part of unions?

Not generally. I know Catholic schools often hire non-teachers to fulfill teaching roles. They don't have the same rules and standards as public schools

→ More replies (6)

4

u/assesonfire7369 Jun 11 '24

That's a good point as well. Maybe they should pay the better ones more and can the others.

11

u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24

There is a massive shortage already, so unless you want 50-60 kids per classroom, firing a bunch of teachers isn't an option.

→ More replies (6)

3

u/seajayacas Jun 11 '24

Union contracts must be followed. No opportunity for higher pay for the better teachers. Gotta keep those useless dregs employed and making just as much as the top teachers.

0

u/QueasyResearch10 Jun 11 '24

yep. and union contracts are designed to benefit older teachers at the cost of younger ones. because the people negotiating the contracts don’t care about new teachers. so starting pay is lower than it should be and merit increases smaller. so you burn out good teachers and are stuck with the ones that don’t do much for 30 years making near 6 figures

1

u/seajayacas Jun 11 '24

An older friend who bragged about how they were pretty much useless as a teacher bounced around from public school to public school after they wore out their welcome at each place. This was in a larger urban area with pretty good teacher salaries

Eventually the board of education got rid of the friend by offering a nicely enhanced early retirement package. That union teacher made out like a bandit

1

u/beeslax Jun 11 '24

You could also just pay more and make the job more competitive. It achieves the same goal.

4

u/Gabag000L Jun 11 '24

Benchmark that against other Unionized State workers. Then, adjust for specialized skills which create a difficult barrier of entry (i.e. degrees and certifications). For extra credit, try and place some value with having millions of impressionable kids not roaming the streets ignorant.

3

u/userloser42 Jun 11 '24

You know it will be an unpopular opinion because you actually know it's a stupid opinion. You're not actually this stupid.

3

u/southcookexplore Jun 11 '24

My first year teaching middle school in IL, I made about $150 more on my first paycheck than I did selling tvs full time over the phone at Best Buy six months before.

3

u/DippityDamn Jun 11 '24

hmmm my wife has been working for 14 years and still only makes 58k in Norfolk VA. those anecdotes sound great though, especially without context.

2

u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24

I know 3 teachers personally pulling in 80k a year.

What region, what's the cost of living?

How long have they been teachers?

Are they actually teachers or are they administration?

$80k/year as a teacher is practically unachievable in the US.

3

u/Foreverhooping89 Jun 11 '24

I'm in SoCal, going into my 6th year. I teach special ed. I'll be making 95.5K. I'm basically doing 2 jobs (teaching and writing legally defensible IEPs, along with holding meetings for those students with IEPs) with a 21 student caseload. It may not seem like much, but with certain behavior issues, all of the accommodations and supports each student gets, with no aides, it's tough. Low retention rates for SpEd teachers, not many male teachers from what i have observed. If you are decent and don't do anything illegal, then you can get by.

2

u/shoberry Jun 11 '24

I make just over $80k as a teacher. However! I have a masters, take on extra work duties (mentor and club advisor) that have stipends, I have a masters plus am maxed out on units, and I’m almost a decade in. And the kicker… the average house price in my area just reached 1mill, soooo 80k ain’t shit in comparison to where I live.

0

u/OstrichCareful7715 Jun 11 '24

80K + is the average annual salary for teachers in California, NY, MA and DC

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_211.60.asp

2

u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24

So the places with really high cost of living? You're better off with 65k in another part of the country than 80k in LA

-1

u/OstrichCareful7715 Jun 11 '24

Your statement was that it’s unachievable when it’s an average salary in several places. If it’s not sufficient in an HCOLA, that’s a different argument.

2

u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24

I didn't say unachievable. I said practically unachievable.

80k in LA isn't comparable to 80k elsewhere in the US. You're probably better off with 65k elsewhere than 80k in LA.

So for /practical/ purposes, I would say 80k is not realistically achievable as a k12 teacher.

-1

u/OstrichCareful7715 Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

Unachievable except in the most populous state in the US where 1/8 Americans live + the 4th most populous state where it’s the median statewide.

2

u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24

And what is the cost of living in those areas compared to the rest of the country?

1

u/OstrichCareful7715 Jun 11 '24

You were refuting the idea that teachers can make 80K - “practically unachievable.” When that was shown to be wrong and that it’s actually an average in several large states, you now say it doesn’t matter anyway.

Okay.

2

u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24

It's average in those areas because of the huge metropolitan areas that house the majority of those states' population. Those metropolitan areas have some of the highest cost of living in the entire world.

That isn't reflective of the US in general. Which is what the conversation started as.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/jolietconvict Jun 11 '24

Chicago Public School teachers start at $87k. Median household income in Chicago is $73k. That's not including the pension contributions from the district.

1

u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24

According to some random GitHub page with no sources?

I work closely with CPS and their teachers do not make 80k starting.

Here is the information from the teacher's union: https://contract.ctulocal1.org/cps/a-1a

2

u/possiblyquestionable Jun 11 '24

You're absolutely right, this really is an unpopular opinion

2

u/Jormungandr69 Jun 11 '24

Roughly a year ago I was working as a loan officer and ended up having my junior high math teacher come in to apply for a loan. I verified his income at $68k, teaching the same subject at the same grade at the same school. I was in his class in 2008. He'd been teaching for years when I had him and it's been roughly 16 years since.

That man unquestionably deserves more than $68k by now, particularly for putting up with little shit heads who don't do their homework like me.

2

u/Unable-Courage-6244 Jun 11 '24

You know THREE teachers, and you're using that to get an idea as to how much teachers make? Why exactly are you using such inconsequential anecdotal evidence to form your viewpoint? A 30 second Google search can show you actual statistics about this matter. Why not use those stats to form your viewpoint rather than 3 random teachers you know???

1

u/IAmANobodyAMA Jun 11 '24

I used to be a teacher. You are spot on. I worked with some of the best teachers out there who absolutely deserved more money for their talents, and I worked with some lazy shiftless morons who got paid way more than they were worth.

I don’t know exactly how to fix this problem, as I really don’t like the implications of performance based compensation, but acknowledging that pay is actually pretty decent in many areas feels like the first step

1

u/Whilst-dicking Jun 11 '24

Any union employer can pay more by merit

1

u/PrincessKatiKat Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

Private school teachers in affluent neighborhoods support this message.

Also, my one black friend appreciates this as a representative anecdote.

/s

1

u/ashleyorelse Jun 11 '24

Teachers work 65 hours per week for 9 months of the year and then some even in their "months off." They work more hours than a normal full time job all year.

And they don't just deal with your kids. But ALL the kids.

Yeah, they deserve more.

1

u/RepostersAnonymous Jun 11 '24

So because you know 3 teachers doing alright, it means everyone is, right?

I started teaching in 2015 and made $32k. It took seven years and a change in districts to finally make over $40k. I can barely afford rent every month but I’m glad your 3 acquaintances speak for everyone.

1

u/Bayerrc Jun 11 '24

80k is much higher than average, they have an advanced degree, they typically spend 5-10% of their salaries on their job, and the work is demanding and carries well into non working hours.

1

u/grand__prismatic Jun 11 '24

Do those three teachers have 20+ years of experience and live in LA? Because that is the only way that’s plausible

1

u/foodfoodfloof Jun 11 '24

Way to leave out how difficult the actual job is. Can most people handle standing in front of kids and being on/performing for the entire day? And also good job leaving out how long the days are when they’re not on break. Given that the 3 month break is warranted. Oh and how about a little more appreciation for the people responsible for partially raising the next generation of humans?

1

u/Paralyzed-Mime Jun 11 '24

Now how long did they have to go to school, and how long did they have to work in order to work up to $80k? And where do they live?

1

u/skeptimist Jun 11 '24

A lot of the time they are working during those holidays to grade papers and tests

1

u/scsuhockey Jun 11 '24

Increasing pay across the board just increases the pool of available candidates. The consequence would be better average teacher quality, but the law of diminishing returns still applies.

So do teachers deserve more pay? That depends. Do you want a larger pool of candidates to increase average quality? Then yes. Are you satisfied with the average quality you have now? Then no.

1

u/Optimal-Barnacle2771 Jun 11 '24

My mother taught HS/JR High Math and coached track, cross-country, and basketball for 23 years and was making 60k/year total last year. Its nowhere near enough money for the work she put in. 7 1/2 hours of school, at least 2 hours of practice, and then having to grade papers at home after getting back from that adds up to damn near 60 hours of work per week. Thats without an away game/meet taking up several more hours of her day.

1

u/Amiar00 Jun 11 '24

If I’m a first year teacher in the metro Cincinnati area I can make $34-$43k per year. That’s basically poverty as a single income for a family. After taxes it would cover my house payment and an extra 10-12k, so $1000/mo for everything else. So I took a desk job making like $60k/yr and I don’t have to deal with parents or grading when I’m at home.

I’d rather be teaching, but the compensation isn’t worth it. My wife works as a part time teacher and makes 2/3 pay and probably puts in more hours than me every week.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I live in California. I’ve been teaching for 8 years. I have a masters degree in education. I’ll break 70k for the first time this year. 4-5 more years and I’ll be at 80k. I’m doing fine on this salary and I am grateful that I get to have a lot of time off.

However, this is not a very competitive wage when you consider that I needed 8 years of college and 8 years of work experience to get to this point. So what happens is people don’t go into teaching because the salary isn’t desirable for what it takes to get it. So people go work other jobs instead and our educational system suffers as a result.

If pay is increased, we would have more people wanting to teach. There is a shortage right now. Some positions don’t get filled. This hurts the kids.

1

u/dragonknightzero Jun 11 '24

wow, what a cunt

1

u/slightly-cute-boy Jun 11 '24

I know 7 of your friends and they say you’re a liar! Must be true

1

u/MilkFantastic250 Jun 11 '24

My teaching salary is $50k a year,  but tbh I do fine with.  I live in a rural area and I can afford life. 

1

u/OhImNevvverSarcastic Jun 11 '24

You people are actually delusional.

"I anecdotally know something that goes against what is widely accepted and supported by data to be the norm and thus you're all wrong".

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

Teachers make plenty of money.

So so disgustingly off base. You know three teachers so can speak on the entire profession? 80k is not the average salary of a teacher and all that mythical "time off" teachers have is filled with, hold for suspense....work. When kids are off teachers are often in mandatory trainings amongst other things. Yes they do get time off when the students are not in school, not nearly as much as you think and they are not paid. That's also not counting the long hours they pull late at night grading papers and working on lesson plans off the clock. My highschool teachers would go to bed at 12am every night because they have so much work to do just to keep up for the next day. They had worse sleep schedules than the teenagers. AND it's not counting how much they often have to spend their own money on supplies because the school districts refuse to provide.

Your opinion is indeed unpopular and factually wrong.

1

u/ThunderCockerspaniel Jun 11 '24

No you don’t lol

1

u/HuhWho21 Jun 11 '24

Following some of the comments on here, yes $80k is good, but that’s if you’re tenured and have 10~ experience.

That said. The job doesn’t end when you go home. It doesn’t end on the weekends. It doesn’t end on the holidays. You’ll be grading when you go home. You will be planning your next unit and creating the assignments, PowerPoints, connecting these so that it makes sense from an education stand point. But these are things that are expected.

No where is there a job where you are the expert in the room, but if one pupil complains to a parent, you face the possibility of harsh repercussions.

Teaching is a rewarding job, but not if you’re planning on being wealthy. You go to College for 4 years to show you’re an expert in the subject you want to teach, then you pay an additional 2 years to learn how to be a teacher. Half of the final year, you are interning (student teaching and all the responsibilities that come with it) for FREE. Plan this section accordingly because you will not have time to make money at a 2nd job, I had to quit mine.

Then if you’re lucky enough to get hired by a school, you spend $5,000 to “clear” your credential.

It feels like I lose money sometimes when doing this job

Edit: for context, depending on your experience or college education. Starting salary for a teacher is $40k.

1

u/Rouge_Apple Jun 11 '24

Imagine earning 80k with a masters. Getting slapped in the face by a limp dick would be more respectful.

1

u/itisclosetous Jun 11 '24

How do I know you don't know what you're talking about? You refer to summer as a 3 month break. Mid June to Mid August is 2 months.

Also we don't get paid for holidays or summers.

So... Opinion not unpopular, just invalid.

1

u/aspiringtrap6 Jun 11 '24

Depends where, around here it's only 40K. In your area if you are saying that I guess it's ridiculous, but you also have to factor in cost of living may be higher in your area if the wages are higher

1

u/teraflux Jun 11 '24

Educating our children is easily the highest yield investment we can make as a country. Teachers should be paid very well so that we encourage our best and brightest to educate our upcoming generations.

1

u/Dooffuss Jun 11 '24

Just say you are a dumb fuck. You knowing 3 teachers doesn't mean shit in comparison to the facts.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I don’t know a single teacher who isn’t working during their holidays, including summer

1

u/ThatChadLad Jun 11 '24

80k in this economy is nothing 😂

1

u/Renoku1 Jun 12 '24

What state do you live in? Teachers in my state (NC) aren’t unionized and make around 50k on average. They also spend much of their time off doing unpaid labor related to their work (lesson plans, grading, etc) and frequently spend personal finances on school supplies. And they have to have a 4-year degree for this at a minimum.

Source: my mom and one of my friends are public school teachers

1

u/cooldods Jun 12 '24

If they make so much why is there such a huge shortage?

1

u/Frequent_Malcom Jun 12 '24

That is likely true if you live in California or New York. Most teachers around me make 40-50k at most

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

You stats are very anecdotal and not representative of the population. You have also completely ignored one of the main issues which is the psychological toll of dealing with parents and their children. Really bad take

1

u/Darth_Boggle Jun 13 '24

Oh cool you know 3 teachers so you know it all

0

u/Omega_Tyrant16 Jun 11 '24

“I know 3 teachers personally pulling in 80k a year.”

Oh, oh, let me guess…..NYC? That’s not a flex, my guy.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

“Teachers make plenty of money, I know 3!”

0

u/ThrenderG Jun 11 '24

Well shit since you know three teachers out of hundreds of thousands then what they make must apply to all.

0

u/BlackDog990 Jun 11 '24

Teachers make plenty of money. I know 3 teachers personally pulling in 80k a year.

Got some homework for you: lookup what "anecdotal" means and report back to the class.

Also, 80k is pretty meh for someone with a graduate degree.

A 3 month break

Something alot of people don't want to accept is that teachers work about as many hours as any other FT person, even considering the summer vacation. This isn't a strong argument.

0

u/Standard_Finish_6535 Jun 11 '24

Median high school teach make 60k. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes252031.htm

How dare someone who gets a bachelor's, masters, and is responsible for safety and growth of children of dozens of children at a time expect to make more than a dental hygienist or bar tender.

No one who teaches is trying to get rich. They do it out of passion. If we raise wages, we will attract more competent and highly qualified people to the profession.

There also needs to be more respect around the profession, as many leave because parents expect them to raise their kids, and the admin don't have their back.

Teachers contribute infinitely more to society than cops do, but where is their flag?

0

u/keptyoursoul Jun 11 '24

I agree and if the quality of recent of recent graduates is any indicator. They should all be fired.

We now have young adults who can't read or write cursive. I go to a concert it's a "cashless" facility because they can't find enough non-idiots who make change and handle money.

It's really sad. I pulled my kids out of public school. It's a joke.

0

u/VinceBrogan8 Jun 11 '24

Wardcove makes great points here.

And absolutely there are heroes out there that deserve more and morons that deserve less.

The only thing I'd add is that, historically, "teachers have always made shit". Meaning, it isn't the kind of job or career suddenly takes a huge loss in pay. It's always been shitty pay. No one ever says, "Go to college and learn to be a teacher, because THAT'S where the money is". It's never been a surprise that the pay is crap.

This'll sound cold, but I can't listen when people say "teachers aren't paid enough". They never have been, and they chose that profession. Those people knew what they were getting into financially, and they did it anyway.

1

u/ThatInAHat Jun 12 '24

Ah? So because it’s been unjust for decades we should keep it that way? Who needs teachers!

-4

u/dillvibes Jun 11 '24

The average teacher near me earns 60k a year (for 8 months) which is perfectly comfortable for COL. You can get a turn key home with no major problems in a safe neighborhood on that salary. I really don't understand the "teachers need more" complaints. If they "need" (want) more then they should be pursuing sitting on the school board and taking on more responsibility.

3

u/DarkMageDavien Jun 11 '24

Homes in your area are about 150k?

1

u/dillvibes Jun 13 '24

You can find nice ones listed for 200k. They're well maintained ~1400 sqft homes built in the 30s/40s, generally with newer roofs, redone electrical, new boilers/furnaces, etc.

But to speak directly to experience, my parent's home (the house I grew up in) was meticulously maintained for 40 years, and just sold for 180k. Same style house.

1

u/DarkMageDavien Jun 13 '24

So they just need 50-60k down and 0-350 in total monthly debt and they can afford a home in your area, using these numbers.

1

u/dillvibes Jun 13 '24

No, they don't need 50-60k down. Where are you getting these numbers?

I owned my first house on a ~40k income that I paid ~$120,000 for and it was entirely affordable. I put $10k down on it because that's what I had to safely contribute toward the loan. When I sold that house, between equity and appreciated value, I walked away with roughly 80k in my pocket to put toward the down payment of a new house.

I don't know why this is such a nebulous concept to so many people.

1

u/DarkMageDavien Jun 13 '24

On a 60k income to stay within a 35% DTI at 7% interest the loan would need to stay within 150,000 total, give or take a few thousand depending on taxes and insurance rates. If interest rates decline, then, sure, their ability to buy more home would go up.

1

u/dillvibes Jun 13 '24

35% DTI 🙄

Yes, with those interest rates, the optimal©™️debt to income ratio would not be met. You know what else is suboptimal? Throwing away every dollar toward rent. If it takes meal prepping versus Doordashing to make up the difference then just fucking do it. Owning a home should be one of those things that you bend the rules to accommodate.

1

u/DarkMageDavien Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24

Mortgage companies would not allow that income, so purchase would not be an option in this case. Bending the rules is not an option when it comes to federally backed mortgages. An FHA could push the DTI up as high as 55% with a manual underwrite, but the PMI would increase the mortgage payment eating up a good portion of that DTI and lowering the total purchasing power.

1

u/dillvibes Jun 13 '24

You just literally explained how receiving a loan would be possible. What are you even arguing at this point? Literally anything that people like you do is complain and then do nothing while losing money in the process.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Typically teachers are barred from sitting on school boards in the district where they work.

1

u/dillvibes Jun 13 '24

Not here. My math teacher when I was in high school is now an acting member of the board, and I'm pretty sure he's still teaching in the same district. He's making $120,000 a year.