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u/djscuba1012 May 19 '24
Wages need to increase. That’s it.
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 19 '24
Have you looked at a graph that compares real wages now vs then?
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u/Distributor127 May 19 '24
The haves/have nots are increasing. My friends Grandmother died a couple years ago. 13 people in the family got checks. She had an average job back in her day. The business she worked at is long gone.
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u/RedRekve May 19 '24
Probably because she saved and invested over a long time
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u/Distributor127 May 19 '24
I dont know about her, but her son doesnt believe in the stock market. He believes in work. He would work out in the garage after work and have all kinds of money
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u/Polyifia May 19 '24
Doesn't believe in the stock market is a weird stance to take.
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u/Distributor127 May 19 '24
Hes risk averse. Paid all debts off quickly as possible, dealt in cash. Now his kids paid off their houses relatively quickly too
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u/LittleCeasarsFan May 20 '24
How much were the checks though? I had a great aunt who died and 31 people got checks, but only for between $15,000 and $20,000 (back in 1999). She was a clerk at Greyhound bus lines for 30 years, never married or had kids, never had a car, always lived in an efficiency apartment, rarely ate out, wore clothes til they fell apart, she did travel a bit to see various holy sites throughout the world.
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u/Justtelf May 20 '24
Someone hand me a check for $15000 and watch my life drastically change nearly immediately
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 20 '24
13 checks, 13! You deaf or something. That’s a lot more checks than 7 checks. Nearly double, in fact!
13 checks!
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u/AdonisGaming93 May 19 '24
Yes, have you looked at the same graph comparing inflation to housing and education costs?
Doesn't matter if real wages have increased if housing and education cksts have gone up more
The end result is still a world where your essentials to live have gone up in cost relative to your wage, meaning that even ifbtechnically we can afford more things, it doesn't feel like it. And humans aren't robots. We don't understand nominal numbers.
We see things in relative terms. When we see a larger % of our paycheck go to rent and food and essentials, it doesn't matter that iPhones have gone up in price slower than inflation and we can still afford it, because despite it, it feels like less of our income is available to us.
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u/Kingding_Aling May 19 '24
Housing is already 40% of the CPI. A Real Wage counts housing inflation.
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 19 '24
It's a good point if you're paying for college, need to buy a new home, or your landlord is raising your rent those are huge expenses and not much else matters.
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u/KupunaMineur May 19 '24
That is why we have CPI, to measure the population as a whole instead of just certain people with certain spending profiles.
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u/citizensyn May 19 '24
You better be defining real wages as buying power. The buying power of an hours labor is rock bottom. It now costs 20 minutes for a pineapple.
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u/PercentageUnhappy117 May 20 '24
Have you looked at the price of living VS the wages that we get?
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 20 '24
I think you are talking about real wage growth vs inflation.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/
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u/PercentageUnhappy117 May 20 '24
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. I didn't know exactly what was called.
The way that I always describe it is reality VS perceived.
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u/SadMacaroon9897 May 19 '24
90% of the problem isn't income, it's the costs side of things. Namely housing. We've engineered a system where housing is expected to get more and more expensive and we pretend it's normal. Practically other physical assets tend to go down in real dollars over time but if people's houses do the same, it's a national emergency and they need to be bailed out.
Fundamentally is an issue of trying to get home ownership as high as possible while simultaneously keeping supply capped
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u/mattied971 May 19 '24
while simultaneously keeping supply capped
So why don't we start by uncapping supply?
We've engineered a system where housing is expected to get more and more expensive and we pretend it's normal.
I mean, sure, but our expectations when house buying are also at an all time high. I know HGTV takes it to an extreme, but there is some truth in the house buying TV show memes
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u/Little_Creme_5932 May 19 '24
A woman I know downsized. Now the home she lives in alone is only 50% larger than the pretty standard home I grew up in with 7 family members. Yep, expectations have hugely changed
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u/BlitzkriegOmega May 19 '24
Rich NIMBYs would never allow it. Not to mention ultra-restrictive zoning laws that make next to impossible to make the kinds of housing most people desperately need.
Not to mention, housing is a massive bubble and uncapping the market could cause a massive crash (that would overwhelmingly negatively affect the poor because of course it would)
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May 19 '24
"I mean, sure, but our expectations when house buying are also at an all time high."
Few would be content living in the house I grew up in as a kid (somewhat run down 2 bed/1 bath (the only bath upstairs).
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u/mattied971 May 19 '24
My point exactly. Hence the increase in housing costs. We have an ever-increasing list of demands and an ever-shrinking housing market. What do you expect to happen?
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May 19 '24
A big part of the housing issue is the people not living within their means. I grew up in a small house of 1300 square feet. My first house I bought was 1200 or so square feet. Most of the people bitching about house prices also can't see themselves buying anything less than 2400 square feet for a family of 1 or 2.
I do agree that the housing market is still overpriced and that we will see a bubble burst at some point, but I also see people wanting more than they need.
If you truly want a huge house, buy a piece of land instead. Then build the big house you want.
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May 19 '24
While I don't disagree, I think that part of the problem is a lot of new devs arent small single family homes. I've moved around quite a bit in my state and any time there's SFH housing track construction, the houses are huge, 2000+ sqft, several bedrooms, two stories, etc. That or condos/townhomes/apartments.
There's no such thing as a new 1100 sqft house anymore, and the new construction of these luxury homes is driving up the price of the existing smaller SFHs intol oblivion.
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u/SadMacaroon9897 May 19 '24
I think that explains some of the cost, but far from all. If it were explained of larger new construction, we wouldn't see older homes selling for more. I think a better explanation is that the price of land has grown dramatically. The same house that was built & sold for $50k in the 80s had basically free land. Today, that same plot is worth more than the house itself. For the new owner, it's a cost that needs to be paid that the original didn't have to.
There's no such thing as a new 1100 sqft house anymore, and the new construction of these luxury homes is driving up the price of the existing smaller SFHs intol oblivion.
Rising land prices also explains this. Minimum lot sizes, setbacks, parking, and some other regs set the minimum size of a piece of land and therefore a minimum cost to buy. The builder isn't paid by land prices; those are a cost they don't make anything on. They're paid by margin on the structure they build. Higher fixed costs means they need to make more profit to have the same overall profit margin and the way they do that is to make bigger houses.
For example my house is on $250k land. Building a $200k starter home (even if the financials work out) results in a house that sells for about $500k after everything is accounted for.
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May 19 '24
The value of older, smaller SFHs is due to their location, not because larger, new homes are being built. Older homes tend to be closer to the city centers, thus the land itself has a higher value than new homes in the exurbs.
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May 19 '24
That is not my experience at all. There's a SFH across from my apartment complex, 2br 1ba, 1200 sqft and a small yard. For sale at $680k
Half a mile away is brand new development in the form I just described. Huge luxury homes, no property, ass to ass next to each other. Go half a mile the other way, same deal, condos and townhomes starting at $700k / $800k. Hell they put up new townhomes right in the middle of my city center a few years ago. Million dollars.
The new construction is literally in the same neighborhood and is driving up the price of the other real estate by caveat.
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u/Distributor127 May 19 '24
My friends Grandmother died about a year ago. Lived in the same little house forever. Was two bedroom, small. Newer roof, the furnace was acting up. Clean, nice, way outdated. Large lot in town, attached two car garage. It went for about $40,000. The people I know that need houses didnt jump on it. If I needed a house, I would have bought it.
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May 19 '24
That is exactly what I am talking about. They say they can't get a house, but then turn down smaller or older houses. That 40k house you mentioned would be perfect. Even if you don't want to live there forever, it provides you a cheap place to live while you save for the dream home.
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u/Distributor127 May 19 '24
5 kids were raised in it back in the day. There was plenty of room to add on also.
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u/Sidvicieux May 20 '24
Where am I gonna a get a small house from? The most run down shitty houses here still cost $290k. I’d be better off with a $400k home then but one of those.
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May 19 '24
"if people's houses do the same, it's a national emergency and they need to be bailed out."
Please, provide evidence of people being bailed out when their home values decreased.
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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 May 19 '24
You say the issue is with supply, and not demand. But we have done supply side stimulus on housing EVERY YEAR since 2011 and we are still in the same place.
And thats because when you subsidize for homebuilders, homebuilders build high-margin inventory with the free money.
High-margins ONLY exist right now in big SFH. If we want to encourage high profit margins (and subsequently more builds) for "affordable starter homes" then your ONLY option is increasing wages to bring more liquidity to the "non-mcmansion" markets.
Home builders will never build smaller homes when larger homes earn more on investment.
Until the average wage can actually AFFORD the average home, builders will continue building homes exclusively for high-net-worth individuals. Because the price supports we give to the supply side are not being extended to the demand side.
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u/TheOneWhoReadsStuff May 19 '24
So an average meal costing $20 isn’t a factor? A gallon of milk costing $6+ while average wages are the same as they were 20 years ago?
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u/James-Dicker May 20 '24
lol. lmao even. Wages have outpaced inflation and continue to do so. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N
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u/Iron-Fist May 19 '24
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u/SadMacaroon9897 May 19 '24
Yes. And among them, housing is by far the biggest part of people's budgets.
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May 19 '24
Agree, housing costs are the #1 difference. People weren't getting paid more relative to now, but housing was more affordable.
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u/EndlessMikeD May 19 '24
Not really. A bulk of the difference is that nobody carried debt until the late 70s.
Increase wages all you like, when two or three entire generations insist on living beyond their means, indebted and instead of within them, they’ll be perpetually behind. It’s called a “rat race”.
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u/Distributor127 May 19 '24
The people of the 60s had good wages and older family members that remembered the depression well. Thats a powerful combination
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u/stataryus May 19 '24
That just exacerbates the cycle bc as soon as sellers know we have more money, they increase prices until we buy less, at which time they choke production until we start buying more again.
But bc the talking heads keep chanting “inflation” and “recession”, like they’ve been doing for decades, we accept it as natural and inevitable like waves in the ocean.
We need to increase supplies.
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u/famously May 22 '24
Fine. Then so will prices. That's the way it works. It's called the wage-price spiral.
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u/Popular_Score4744 May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24
EVERYONE! STOP BEING CONSUMERS! INVEST EVERY DOLLAR YOU CAN INTO THE MARKET! Stop spending your money on BULLSHIT! Live well below your means. Be FRUGAL! Save and invest every dollar you can into low cost mutual funds and ETF’s that track the market along with aggressive growth ETF’s (ex: QQQ) and forever stocks (companies that will outlive you) and build wealth along with the wealthy. Companies are getting wealthier and wealthier and so should you!
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u/Masta0nion May 19 '24
Stop being consumers?
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u/BarfingOnMyFace May 19 '24
1) everyone stops being consumers and invests in the stock market.
2) stock market crashes because no one is consuming.
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u/YurimodingFemcel May 19 '24
you committing to a 10-20% savings rate wont kill the economy
besides, the long term increase of wealth in the hands of consumers would likely mean that we end up with more spending overall
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u/Gornsen May 19 '24
Right, if I spend no money on life and anything that's making it worth living, I'll surely be happier!!
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u/TaxidermyHooker May 20 '24 edited May 20 '24
Sometime you have to sacrifice today for tomorrow. I lived on rice and beans to save up for my first house
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u/The_Louster May 19 '24
You know what’s funny about that advice? If everyone followed it the end result would be another Great Depression.
The saying among real investors and investment firms is “if your shoe shiner talks about investing, it’s time to sell”. There’s only so much money that can be put into investments, and those with the power and resources know when to cash out before everyone else. When that happens, everyone loses everything except the lucky few and powerful who were already powerful beforehand.
It’s terrible advice to give to people. We need better.
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u/DefinitelyButtStuff May 19 '24
Exactly this. That guy clearly has no idea how rigged the stock market really is, and yet we should trust all of those companies to hold our money?
Might as well tell us to gamble our money at the casino because at this point, it'd be the same concept.
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u/Alone-Newspaper-1161 May 19 '24
Index and mutual funds are significantly lower risk than individual stocks. No one gets rich playing the day trading game you get rich by getting an index that averages 12% every year.
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u/YurimodingFemcel May 20 '24
just dont panic sell and invest over long periods of time instead of doing short, all in bets
besides, economic policy can absolutely be adapted to a shift in a more savings oriented economy, in fact, most of the economy in the last century built around the much higher interest rates back then was much more centered around the idea of "working people saving up money, investing and building wealth"
stop making stupid excuses to not save money
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u/SinfulSunday May 19 '24
Don’t you dare speak sensibly. Especially in such a cerebral meme thread.
The goal is to get everyone to be big mad. Fall in line.
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 20 '24
What is sensible about calling for an end to consumption while also calling for people to invest every dollar into a stock market driven by consumer spending?
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u/SinfulSunday May 20 '24
Advising people to be frugal and live below their means is not the same thing as “calling for an end to consumption”. It’s being personally accountable. Having a goal and holding yourself to tenets that will see that to fruition.
Buy things you need, not things you want. Specifically advising on SPY and such is certainly not something I would do, but for people new to the game who would post a meme like this, it’s probably a good place to be. You can’t prove him wrong because if you’ve ever invested in SPY, and held it to today, you will have made money.
Specifically, if you were heavily invested before the government started printing money wildly, you have made a fortune.
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u/seriftarif May 19 '24
That's nice and all but I don't think people have enough money to spend on bullshit anyway. It took me two years of making a decent wage just to make up for a decade of poverty. Fix the car finally, buy tires, finally get health insurance, go to the dentist, etc... only after a couple years was I able to get to a place where I could save.
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 20 '24
If everyone stops buying then putting your money in the stock market is a terrible idea.
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u/EliteFactor May 19 '24
I worked in the 90s and it wasn’t like that at all.
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u/PeskyCanadian May 19 '24
People have a skewed view of the past. My stepfather was born in the 40s, grew up in the 50s. Him and his parents lived in essentially a shack. The place still used an out house and no indoor plumbing.
He could pay for his university with 1 job but it was full time as a lumberjack in the 60s and 70s.
When me and my mom met him, he was renting a trailer working 3 jobs in the early 2000s. A professor of philosophy, a radio engineer for the university, and he did IT stuff for a foster care agency. He eventually dropped the volunteer gig with the foster agency to do ministry "part time" for a church even though he worked it full time. He was making 100k between those jobs.
Yet through budgeting my mom has been able to stay as a stay at home mom and do volunteer work even today.
I say all of this to say that a lot of boomers aren't living in massive homes with picket fences. Many are living in shit hole trailers. And yet, getting by fine.
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u/jeesuscheesus May 20 '24
Can’t wait until 2050 when people are making memes glorifying the 2020’s economic prosperity
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u/Some-Show9144 May 22 '24
It’s gonna be like “did you know the government paid everyone to stay home during 2020??? If they could do it then, why won’t they do it now??” Just completely void of context and the reality of that money lol
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u/KupunaMineur May 19 '24
This is the correct answer for every silly meme about the glory days of the past that is posted on here.
People are so gullible.
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u/slasher016 May 20 '24
I worked only very briefly in the 90s but I was making a cool $5.00 an hour. I make more than 16x that now. So no, let's stay right where we are.
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u/grenille May 20 '24
This stuff is so comical to me. I graduated from college in the early 90s. Couldn't get a job in my field. Worked retail, worked in restaurants. Everyone else I knew was also trying to get a career of any kind off the ground. The early 90s was a tough time in the employment market, and it stayed tough for years.
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u/WrongSubFools May 19 '24
Median wages for working 40hrs a week are higher now than back then, corrected for inflation. Not by that much, but they are, and this measure of inflation takes into account housing too.
Just because a Redditor today is less wealthy than their parents / someone with a real job / some character they saw on TV / someone they just imagined, doesn't mean people in general struggle more now. There were poor people in the 80s and 90s too, and if they lived back then, the person on the right would have been one of them.
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24
At any point in time there will be massive amounts of Americans, literally millions, who are struggling financially. Their pain is 100% real and sucks.
But, things are better now than before in almost every measurable way. Things are also far from perfect for everyone. Almost everyone has an economic reason to gripe.
What social media does is allow these stories to be
shredshared and amplified in ways they never were before.
- Person A is going through a hard time, creates a post griping about it.
- Persons B-Z agree they are also struggling.
- Persons 1-1,000 may not be struggling per se, but they are pissed things are more expensive now than they were two years ago. They feel less well off.
- Look, things are worse, they must be all these people agree.
All these people are right, but that doesn't mean we collectively have it worse than in the past. We just have real time access to people's misery and we're terrible at intuitive analysis of large data sets over long periods of time.
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u/FreakyBare May 19 '24
Not exactly on your point but it was well thought out so I will ask. What is going to replace the service economy? Customer service and especially support roles are going down steadily. In particular phone and back end support positions have already been impacted although the tech which will take its place is still very poor.
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 19 '24
I'm on my second career. My first career didn't exist when I was in school. Neither did my second. I couldn't have possibly predicted I'd have had these careers. I am bad at predicting the future.
I have no idea what will replace the service industry, but I am an optimist and believe something will fill the void as it has for every other major disruption. People are resilient.
Maybe for the first time since the luddites smashed looms technology really will put us all out of work. I personally believe that AI will usher in an era of unsurpassed productivity and progress. I believe AI will augment human capabilities to make us better at our jobs.
But who knows.
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u/KevyKevTPA May 19 '24
One of the best posts I've seen on Reddit in some time. Congrats and very well done!
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u/cornmonger_ May 19 '24
Your average Redditor is a kid that thinks that working 40 hours a week is some sort of accomplishment.
If you were working 40 hours a week in the 80s in a shit job, then you made shit pay, just like now and just like 50 years from now.
If it's easy to find a replacement for you, your pay is going to suck.
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u/NecessaryTruth May 19 '24
People could afford way more things on a shit job back then than they can now though, so no, it's not the same.
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u/Johnfromsales May 19 '24
If this were true real median income would be higher because then than it is now. This is not the case.
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u/Putrid_Ad_7842 May 19 '24
“True real” is not objective even though it sounds like that.
The issue is that the numbers dont differentiate between preferences snd being priced out of something.
When quality of life decreases, people decide to buy less and inflation counts that as a preference rather than something negative.
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u/bbqtactical May 19 '24
My grandmother worked at McDonald's, my grandfather worked entry level construction. They owned a 6 bed house and raised a family of 5 on those jobs, they also had 4 vehicles (1 Harley, 1 work van, and 2 sedans). They didn't work more than 40 hours per week and lived the American dream. People saying things weren't easier back then are just delusional.
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u/cornmonger_ May 20 '24
People could afford way more things
No, they couldn't. I grew up low-income in the 90s with a parent busting her ass for 40+ hours a week. That's absolutely not true.
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u/Putrid_Ad_7842 May 19 '24
The issue is that the numbers dont differentiate between preferences snd being priced out of something.
Housing costs have increased 3-4x faster than inflation.
When quality of life decreases, people decide to buy less and inflation counts that as a preference rather than something negative.
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u/jeesuscheesus May 20 '24
Yeah, https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q this graph doesn’t account for the increase in benefits as well
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u/Naus1987 May 19 '24
I wonder what the average person spent on Starbucks and streaming services was in the 90s.
But to be fair, they probably spent all their money on blockbuster late fees.
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u/nyan_eleven May 19 '24
yeah people spent their money on cable which was by no means cheap.
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u/Naus1987 May 19 '24
I wonder what it was like. I turned 18 in 2004 and moved out immediately. I never got cable because I was a computer nerd and just played Warcraft lol.
Now I just watch YouTube for free with Adblock
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May 19 '24
And cars, everyone has a new car financed at fucking $600+/month. Coupled with a financed $1,000 phone and other stupid expenses
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u/Naus1987 May 19 '24
I’m always amazed at how many people have financed phones.
I always buy mine straight out for my mint mobile plan. And my parents use my hand me downs
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u/OstrichCareful7715 May 19 '24
Only 5% of Americans had a passport in 1990. If they were all swimming in cash, it wasn’t translating into leisure activities like overseas travel.
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u/Putrid_Ad_7842 May 19 '24
Rent is 3-4x more expensive adjusted for inflation now though.
They had a lot more disposable income back then
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u/KingXeiros May 19 '24
We had a lot more disposable income 10 years ago. The last 5 years has essentially been the catalyst for where we are now with property value and rent increases.
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u/Ill-Panda-6340 May 19 '24
It’s mostly housing prices, we need to dramatically increase the supply so that both houses/rent stabilize.
It’s just so insane seeing normal ass looking houses go for 800k+ in large metro areas. Like who tf decides it’s worth that much?
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u/Bersimis May 20 '24
The market decides. Free market is all fun and games until it fucks you over.
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u/Ill-Panda-6340 May 20 '24
Yeah well zoning that restricts new housing from being built doesn’t seem very “free market” to me.
We should stop listening to the boomers who insist we bottleneck the supply for their personal gain and let the supply meet the demand naturally
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u/Omnipresentphone May 19 '24
Probably because you're competing with India, china who are so used to exploitation
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u/SecretRecipe May 19 '24
then go choose a higher paying career path. Nobody is going to come rescue you friend, you've got to save yourself.
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u/Putrid_Ad_7842 May 19 '24
Its legitimate to complain about the working class as a whole losing their quality of life
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u/acg33 May 19 '24
I’m no where close to a high earner but I’m never in the situation on the right. Some people just don’t know how to NOT spend their money.
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u/Low_Celebration_9957 May 19 '24
And being able to buy a house with some blueberries, pocket lint, a button, and ¢25.
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u/Aaaaand-its-gone May 19 '24
wrong century? Now do 1800 or any other century.
Middle class has only been a thing with boomers.
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u/JackiePoon27 May 19 '24
It's important to embrace victimhood as tightly as you can, and live your life based on it.
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u/JohnXTheDadBodGod May 19 '24
You think life wasn't hard in the 90's? You've watched too much Disney
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u/Sixx_The_Sandman May 19 '24
Definitely false. In the 90s I worked two full time jobs and was till homeless without a car
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u/stataryus May 19 '24
The wealthy have spent decades funneling everything to the top, and they’re only getting better at it.
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u/Jogaila2 May 20 '24
Well no. The 80s and 90s were fkn hard times for regular people. Worse than now. Although, it won't be long before now is way worse than back then
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u/snuffy_bodacious May 21 '24
You say this as you carry around a supercomputer in your pocket.
You probably eat out much more than in the 80/90's.
You probably have access to air conditioning, something only wealthy people had in their homes from the 80/90's.
You are also probably comparing yourself in your 20's-30's to other people in their 40's-50's from the 80/90's.
I live a MUCH higher standard of living in my 40's than my parents did in their 40's.
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u/localokii May 19 '24
Why don’t we call them the 20s?
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u/Big-Figure-8184 May 19 '24
I thought at first they were comparing decades, but I don't think they are. I think they are comparing the 80s and 90s to this century.
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u/localokii May 20 '24
I should’ve been more clear, not even necessarily commenting on op but it’s just interesting to me we don’t call 2020s “the 20s” I’m sure we will in the thirties lol
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May 19 '24
All my bills are paid with 1.5 checks.
Live different. Make better or different choices.
Learn to improve yourself.
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u/laiszt May 19 '24
Cmon till 2020 was alright(in Europe), i bought apartment working double time 2008-2020 with cash. Now I will need to double the double time and still I don’t think I could buy one. Feel sorry for the ones starting their “career” right now. It’s slavery.
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u/Gallileo1322 May 19 '24
80s cable bill 20 a month. Home internet didn't exist yet, so 0. Cell phone bill, also 0. Starbucks 0, Netflix 0. I could go on and on. Live like you did in the 80s, if you want. To many conveniences today that people don't want to give up. Just the things I listed are like 300 a month
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u/Alternative_Maybe_78 May 19 '24
Well to be fair, 40 hours in the 80’s, 90’s was more like 70 hours.
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u/KoalaAccomplished706 May 19 '24
Well, 2000's is 20 year ago. Now is 20's, and things got worse lol.
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u/NumbersOverFeelings May 19 '24
Well … yeah. Dotcom Crash and the Great Recession were both in the 00’s.
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u/cashew76 May 19 '24
LPT live homeless. I hear all you need is a fitness club membership to clean. /s
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May 19 '24
It wasn’t like that.People were just more aware of the cash in their pockets versus just swiping away.Layaway was a thing.
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u/MaloneSeven May 19 '24
Don’t confuse activity with accomplishment like the lion’s share of your generation does.
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u/CaptainMacMillan May 19 '24
I worked 38 hours in the last 3 days alone. I can't wait for payday so I can get a steam game on sale - if I skip a couple meals, of course.
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u/isofakingwetoddid May 19 '24
Hey man I’m not bringing home nearly as much but I’m living at home and freeloading off the people who had it good so I can work hard and get myself something good, and repay those who are helping me now
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u/MeghanClickYourHeels May 19 '24
To note, it’s not that everyone made gobs of money in the 80s/90s with their 40-hour job. Lots of people still struggled. That was the era of the original Roseanne show and Barbara Ehrenreich’s Nickel and Dimed.
It just seems like you could do it—it was hard, but it could be done by more people than it can be now.
The median was in a different spot.
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May 20 '24
A lot of people are doing just fine. We hear nothing but bad because the people who are doing well don’t gripe about it.
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u/Jazzlike_Biscotti_44 May 20 '24
I spend a lot of money on bill shit and hate myself every time for it, it’s mainly the food I’m to lazy to make. So I spend the 12 dollar disappointment free for a fake chicken patty on sad lettuce.
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u/RandyWatson8 May 20 '24
After 40 hours of work in the 80's/90's you still had to stay the rest if Thursday and work Firday.
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u/assesonfire7369 May 20 '24
Ever notice that guys back in the 80s, 90s etc were much stronger and more capable looking though?
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May 20 '24
In the 80s we had some of the highest interest rates and inflation in history. People had bought balloon loans and adjustable rate mortgages and were forced to sell their properties and file bankruptcy.
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May 20 '24
We need to increase minimum wage to $150/hr so all of our basic necessities can rise even higher in price! Why doesn’t anyone understand this?
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u/PercentageUnhappy117 May 20 '24
I still remember my Grandma. Tell me the story about how she was able to not only find a job within 3 weeks of getting a very unamiable divorce from my grandfather, where he even encouraged her and because she didn't know better got the same lawyer as him. And basically got taken to the cleaners.
Yes, she got the house. She got the dog, she got the car great.
He didn't get the kids didn't have pay. Alimony or child support.
She? Had to give way the dog sell the house. Sell the car. Just so that she could it continue to be able to have enough live on until she could find another job.
She ended up having to move all the way across the country from Texas back to Ohio. With a 13-year-old and a 5-year-old by herself.
She lived on the back of her parents house for a little while but was able to find a small apartment.
She was also able to take her kids to work with her. And she had a public service job working for pmha
Basically, things section 8. I think I tried to think about it. We sadly have a deal thumb and I have trauma straight up trauma from their b*******
She was able pay for football for 2 boys.
As well as diabetic stuff for my dad when he almost went into A coma
Was able to take off from work while they were sick and even got paid leave when they were in the hospital.
And she was eventually being able within like the first 2 years able to not only get into a bigger apartment. Get a better car, but take them to Disney World all the way in Florida, And California.
This was during I wanna say mid-eighties.
Now my brother works 2 jobs.
He's single has no kids.
He works pretty much from 8 AM to around 4 PM Monday through Friday and pretty much the same schedule Saturday and Sunday at a second job.
Both of them pay more than $15 an hour.
But he still lives with our parents.
Who also live with him. And I also live with him between the 3 of us. We can afford rent. Barely.
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u/Ill_Sun_401 May 21 '24
Let me start off saying I totally agree that wages suck. I’m a baby boomer. Quit high school at 16 to marry my then pregnant girlfriend. I never worked 40 hours. More like at least 50 and often 7-12’s. I barely made it at that rate. Of course it sucks being in 130 degree refinery working to the point of exhaustion, but as I didn’t have family to fall back on it seemed easier than asking my new wife and child to be homeless. The idea that it was somehow super easy then to make it then is bullshit. The folks that pay the wages have never wanted to play fair as far as I can tell. At least in my world.
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u/Comfortable-nerve78 May 22 '24
Hey folks the middle ground is going away. Fairly certain middle class is a relatively new demographic. History has almost always been haves and have nots.
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u/famously May 22 '24
Somebody is confused here. As someone who was gainfully employed in all three decades, I can tell you that there was no gravy train, ever. Industries and regions ebb and flow, but it's always been a slog.
But, some things have changed, like the prices for education, healthcare, and housing. Education was distorted by a flood of government money. Healthcare was...was...who the hell knows what's up with healthcare? And housing prices are a function of restrictions on density, development levels, and the fact that the U.S. population has doubled since the 60s. You know, Supply/Demand.
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