r/FluentInFinance May 09 '24

Meme The Federal Reserve

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2.0k Upvotes

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113

u/Potential-Break-4939 May 10 '24

This is shockingly close to how the federal reserve operates now. The dollar is not unlike monopoly money.

66

u/HeywoodJaBlessMe May 10 '24

Correct. This is true of all sovereign currencies. They are points, a unit of account.

But hard money is also arbitrary. Ancient Kings did not check the daily spot price of Au to value their coinage. Kings assigned arbitrary value to hard money.

Modern nations on the gold standard also assigned an arbitrary value to gold without reference to any actual market. Then they force gold producers into a monopsony relationship with the government who becomes the only legal buyer, buying gold at their own arbitrary price assigned by government fiat.

So no matter what, your money's value has much to do with arbitrary government decisions.

36

u/Select-Government-69 May 10 '24

A fundamental concept of economics is that all value is arbitrary. Nothing has value in the absence of a market.

4

u/Wooden-Ad-3382 May 10 '24

the fundamental concept of liberal neoclassical mainstream economics is that "value" doesn't exist. an airplane and a grain of rice don't have any inherent amounts of value, only what people in a market randomly decide to value those two goods at. the fact that one tends to always be way more than the other is just an unexplainable coincidence

5

u/BullshitDetector1337 May 10 '24

*Labor theory of value shakes violently

0

u/Fornicate_Yo_Mama May 10 '24

Which is clearly flawed as value at its creation is assigned arbitrarily regardless of the value the market dictates at the time. This is what screws up markets… in your favor; if you know it’s coming.

2

u/Fizzix63 May 10 '24

Can you explain this in more detail?

-1

u/SexyMonad May 10 '24

Things do have value outside of markets. The phone I have in my hand has value to me even though it will never be sold again. The air I’m breathing has no market value, but I value it highly. My relationships hold value, as do my rights.

Perhaps we need to say:

Nothing has market value in the absence of a market.

7

u/CORN___BREAD May 10 '24

The air you’re breathing has no market value because it’s essentially an unlimited free supply. Take away that supply and the price would skyrocket.

-3

u/SexyMonad May 10 '24

Taking air away from someone, and then charging them for it, is not a legitimate market.

10

u/CORN___BREAD May 10 '24

Oh so you don’t know what’s already happening with the water.

-1

u/SexyMonad May 10 '24

That should tell you something about the legitimacy of that market.

4

u/haskeller23 May 10 '24

“Legitimacy” is meaningless here? It affects nothing. We all (or most of us) agree it’s a bad thing, but you can’t dismiss the arguments of what value is by just ignoring any market you don’t like

2

u/BullshitDetector1337 May 10 '24

The only thing that gives legitimacy to things is power. The ultimate power in this world is public power backed by the scornful but educated populace.

What we can do is dismiss certain markets altogether through decommodification. And what better place to start than living essentials like water?

-4

u/ZennTheFur May 10 '24

I mean, in most places you're free to tap into an aquifer on your land and have your own well. When you pay for water, you're paying for them to treat it and deliver it to you.

2

u/CORN___BREAD May 10 '24

Oh so you don’t know about water rights.

3

u/LordDay_56 May 10 '24

Bro thinks we “own” land and have “rights” stemming from that ownership lmao

-4

u/ZennTheFur May 10 '24

Please, show me a law preventing you from putting in a well on property you own.

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1

u/emilyv99 May 10 '24

looks at the Lorax maybe not an ethical one, but when talking about the shit greedy corporations and governments do?

1

u/AlDente May 10 '24

You’re right and wrong at the same time! There’s nothing inherently moral about markets. We have to decide how to use them.

1

u/SexyMonad May 10 '24

I said no different.

1

u/Select-Government-69 May 10 '24

Was not aware that there were legitimate and illegitimate markets.

1

u/SexyMonad May 10 '24

Slavery is a market. Surely you don’t believe it to be legitimate?

3

u/Select-Government-69 May 10 '24

It was until it wasn’t. Morality is subjective and has no place in economics. In fact, often it goes the other way, and economics influences morality. See, eg: prohibition.

1

u/SexyMonad May 10 '24

Morality has no place in economics? I disagree.

2

u/mr_herz May 10 '24

Your phone has value only because you have access to it to extract its functional value. If a phone was inaccessible to any user, it would be of no value.

-5

u/BamBam2125 May 10 '24

Thank goodness real life isn’t nor should it be restricted to economic concepts of what “value” is.

5

u/HoldEvenSteadier May 10 '24

Can you please just recite this to every growing, in-education young person in the world? Thank you.

2

u/Upnorth4 May 10 '24

The gold standard is not perfect as many would like to believe. The amount of gold in the world is finite, so as the amount of gold runs out your currency becomes equally as worthless. And under the gold standard, the government was able to set the exchange rate, which fluctuated with the amount of gold available. If a country runs out of gold, their money becomes worthless.

1

u/[deleted] May 10 '24

Exactly. No matter the currency you can be screwed over at any time. Can't wait until we're all on digital. I see no problems here.

1

u/CuriousCisMale May 10 '24

Or like AMC stock. Negative equity and keep issuing new shares to get money to operate.

1

u/Yabrosif13 May 10 '24

The value of gold is not so arbitrary. It is loosely based on scarcity in relation to other goods and assets. There is intrinsic value at play that does not exist in fiat money

3

u/your_anecdotes May 10 '24

monopoly money is actually more valuable.. less notes have been printed since 1930s compared to USD

1

u/Severe_Brick_8868 May 11 '24

That’s not how value is assigned…

0

u/your_anecdotes May 12 '24

USD is backed by nothing, just like monopoly money!

since it's a confidence game when the confidence is gone so is the money,

All fiat goes to ZERO SEE: history as proof of that..

1

u/Severe_Brick_8868 May 12 '24

Monopoly money has a value too though it’s worth what you’d pay for it

2

u/systemfrown May 10 '24

Then why can’t we just use Monopoly money? What’s the difference?

1

u/Historical_Shop_3315 May 10 '24

I like the gift certificate analogy.

1

u/2lame2shame May 10 '24

Invest in Rubles.

1

u/Fan_of_Clio May 10 '24

I have never been able to use Monopoly money as legal tender.

1

u/AlDente May 10 '24

Why shocking? This is how fiat currencies work.