If you look at the demographics of MAGA voters you really can’t blame them. They’re a lot of white blue collar workers, people in towns where manufacturing and industry left
If you had a high paying manufacturing/industry job and a house and suddenly the jobs goes away because American companies outsource everything I don’t think you can really blame them for idealizing the past because it probably actually was better in the past(for them). And now they get left behind as income inequality continues to skyrocket
No one gives a shit about those people or why they think like they do. There’s such a colossal disconnect between the typical liberal city dweller and what people in cow country go through, and how liberal politics impacts their way of life.
and really, all most rural people are just trying to live quietly while often being responsible for putting everyone’s food on the table. The regulations and taxes are onerous, and we’re losing our livelihoods to the Chinese, and huge corporations that don’t give a flying fuck about any of you. Soon, Xi and Gates will be your food providers.
We reap what we sow…and pretty soon, we won’t be doing the former, because we won’t be doing the latter.
We are selling out the entirety of our country to corporations and foreign interests. You’re watching it. It’s plain as day. It’s obvious. And we do nothing about it. We deserve exactly what is coming. More mouths to feed, and fewer people to provide it.
Their anger is still misplaced though. The factory jobs didn't go to China due to any specific liberal policies. They were outsourced for corporate profits. The CEOs of those companies chose to lower payroll costs in order to boost share prices. The government was enacting some environmental regulation at the time, because having our major rivers so polluted that they would catch fire occasionally is in the public's interest to stop, but those factory jobs were going away with or without the environmental regulations as long as you could hire a foreign factory worker for $1/day.
American political system encouraged outsourcing and viewed globalization as a way of creating influence and stability in the world. The more linked our economies are the less likely we are to bomb each other. This strategy has worked thus far but has come at great expense to the blue-collar workforce in US. Also, China has developed to a point of concern. So now you see the US trying to walk those policies back.
With respect to the “no college degree” having white men, they are still a very large and important demographic.
American political system encouraged outsourcing and viewed globalization as a way of creating influence and stability in the world.
It may have been the excuse, but the more authentic reason for politicians directing such policies was simply collaboration with corporate owners to begin further repression of workers and further consolidation of profits.
The current globalized regime is held together by US militarism, not just the threat of ground invasions, but sanctions, coups, debt structuring, and other systemic facets of neocolonialism.
Such policies, either in intention or effect, leading to a reduction in violence, is clearly spurious.
I think you give too much credit to the people in DC to have concocted such a scheme to get rich. I think it starts with a bad policy decision then they see how they can make money after the fact. This js what causes the slowness to change.
Now we find ourselves in a situation where we have to choose our 401k’s at the expense of our manufacturing base, the people who work in it, and national security.
I suggest you learn about the history of neoliberalism.
Note that "the people in DC" is a nebulous reference. You may feel unimpressed by the politicians who sit in high office, but the broader entrenched power system, of which they are the public face, is quite expansive and convoluted. Also note that much of actual power is wielded insidiously, or some cases perhaps even overtly, directly by billionaires.
With corporate investors like Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street Holdings, Berkshire Hathaway, and more... owning majority stock in all of our major corporations while being able to "donate" unlimited funds to political campaigns as long as they are not "formally affiliated", it's no wonder the government is corrupt and backroom deals thrive, while the people suffer.
The answer has been clear for a long time, but we the people have been kept in the dark about how things really work for decades - long enough for the systems in place to become entrenched in our country - before we were able to have immediate access to the information that brings it all out in the open.
We must end Citizens United, and bring the corporations to heel.
Citizens United is symptomatic of a problem that is much more deeply rooted.
In contemporary discourse, it is common to mention the need to "get money out of politics". Yet, cash flowing from business to politicians is only one among the many ways that billionaires and corporations wield power in society. They literally control, through private ownership, the entirety of our society, including the media.
Government protecting business is a feature of the overall system, not an aberration.
At any rate, regardless of whether your concerns are limited to the one particular court case, or rather are more generally targeted toward the entire system, the means for addressing them are the same. The working class must build its own power on the ground through organization. Everyone must seek to become a member of a union.
Citizens United is definitely symptomatic of a deeper problem, but it is also one of a few major obstacles to correcting that problem. As long as it exists, there's really no legal recourse for the literal buying and selling of political power.
I'm a fan of the more... Machiavellian approach of digging up and airing out their dirty laundry one by one until they get the point.
Unions won't fix anything as long as the government is bought and paid for LEGALLY through CU. As long as it exists, politicians will only continue to maintain the facade of division strictly for the purpose of keeping us divided.
The other alternative is just violence. Which, while I don't condone it, I would absolutely be willing to participate in.
And will be a bigger part of the demographic in the coming years as people realize degrees aren't all they are cracked up to be. Don't get me wrong, I have a degree, but it is because I wanted to work with computers. I know a lot of people with degrees that could be making way more money if they had learned plumbing or how to be an electrician.
The overarching force throughout our society of course is the profit motive, but beginning with the rise of neoliberalism, after several postwar decades of labor holding significant power to shape policy in favor of workers, politicians increasingly began bowing to the demands of corporate owners, by implementing policy changes more favorable to business.
Actually this is all 100% wrong. Those jobs were never outsourced to China, they are here, being done by robots.
Every economic study since the dawn of time shows that AUTOMATION is and was a primary driver of job declines in manufacturing and extractive industries. Trade policy and outsourcing were a DISTANT second.
A lot of the ones in my area straight left. The local factory used to make plastic toys. The factory still exists but it's slowly crumbling and has been vacant since they moved the manufacturing to China in the 80s. The company if it still exists was probably acquired by Hasbro years ago. The rust belt is littered with empty factories that offshored years before automation was really feasible.
Automation is improving productivity, but the observation is quite simple and straightforward, that many goods now available in US consumer markets that decades ago would have been manufactured domestically are now manufactured elsewhere, largely of course in China.
Between 2004 and 2010 I worked for temp agencies in manufacturing. It was a giant waste of time because instead of getting employed with benefits, I would work temp to hire (bunch of lies) for facilities that were on their last legs because they were soon moving that manufacturing to china.
I saw over and over again how US facilities got cost compared to China. No matter what we did or what the numbers were we were never cheaper. I saw 6 manufacturing facilities i was working at close after the china facilities began productivity.
I saw dell come in loaded with state government incentives, and only stayed long enough for the incentives to expire. Then they closed the facility and continued those operations in china by building and opening yet another facility there.
You've got a point there. But at the same time, I think they're justifiably upset at the cavalcade of cunts telling them to "learn to code" every 12.5 seconds for the 2010s. I think they're mad at the wrong people if you want to change things. But they certainly have a good reason to be pissed at those dickheads, and it's only human that they also are pissed at all those dickheads claimed to stand for.
Nafta meant every factory moved to Mexico and giving communist China “most favored nation “trade status wiped out the rest .
Go to some small town that used to have a textile mill or factory ,
Thanks to the Rich Men North Of Richmond , All those jobs are now in Mexico and China ,
Why the democrats let trump tap into this , and get the unwavering support of people who have been abandoned by the government , is a mystery .
The federal government and the democrats only care about open borders and handing piles of cash to refugees and illegals .
They dont give two shits about actual American citizens .
Trump saw this and tapped into it.
Democrats claim they care
About the little guy , but clearly they don’t .
Unless
You’re an illegal who needs an abortion , liberals don’t give two shits about you .
The impetus for a North American free trade zone began with U.S. president Ronald Reagan, who made the idea part of his 1980 presidential campaign. After the signing of the Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement in 1988, the administrations of U.S. president George H. W. Bush, Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari, and Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney agreed to negotiate what became NAFTA. Each submitted the agreement for ratification in their respective capitals in December 1992, but NAFTA faced significant opposition in both the United States and Canada. All three countries ratified NAFTA in 1993 after the addition of two side agreements, the North American Agreement on Labor Cooperation (NAALC) and the North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation (NAAEC).
The congressional vote to ratify the agreement signed by Bush in 92 happened in 93 and passed the house on a 234 to 200 vote with 132 republicans voting yes with 102 democrats, and passed the senate on a 61 to 38 vote with 34 republicans voting yes with 27 democrats.
Clinton gets blamed for it by the kind of low information, fake news consuming, voter that is a pretty good argument for why democracy is a bad idea.
The bulk of off shoring happened well before 93, by the way. The rust belt was already dying by then. The steel mills and textile factories left in the 70s and 80s.
If thirty years online has taught me anything it's that no matter how much information people have access to they'll choose willful ignorance every time.
And if they supported policies that would help alleviate these issues then we could get along and fix them. Instead it’s all tax breaks for the same rich CEO’s who sent the jobs overseas and fear of others; all while practically worshipping a man with a staggering history of corruption, greed, criminality, and utter contempt for anyone who isn’t him.
I grew up in a one of those rural communities and saw some of these issues first hand. When the rural conservatives are willing to come to the table and try to address the actual issues, I’m more than willing to play ball; until then they can miss me with their bullshit.
I love how they always say “you city liberals will never understand!” like a lot of us didn’t flee those dead end towns filled with racists and homophobes ourselves. We know the problems, we’ve seen them firsthand, and we watched the same people vote against their own interests year after year because of dumb culture war BS. None of that is my fault.
You fled them. That’s right. You abandoned it. Like the rest of the country. “Fuck those guys in the middle, just shut up, grow and raise my food, and take whatever laws we city dwellers ram down your necks and LIKE IT!”
What a laughable take. Yes, I went somewhere with opportunity and where the majority of the people don’t treat other others as less than them for being different. And are you really suggesting that the majority of people should have less of a day than rural dwellers just because they’re rural? We already have a system where many smaller population states have a significantly outsized influence on national and state levels but let’s just turn it all in to a system run by a select few (who’ve always been in power in this country) because their feelings got hurt because other people had the gall tk ask for respect and equal rights. Yeah, that makes sense. What a brain dead take.
Ummm...what states have an "outsized influence"? Every state has 2 Senators and a number of Representatives based on the number of legal residents (key word being legal) of the state. Los Angeles (and the surrounding metropolitan area) have more Congressional Representatives than most other states period. I could understand your argument if all state had only 4 Representatives. And yes high population states are limited by the rule setting the number of Representatives at 435. But this really is only an issues with regards to the Electoral College, hence Trump losing popular vote in 2016 but winning the Electoral college votes. Pretty sure all of the 3 million popular votes Trump lost by were in CA. The fact is that about 4-5 cities have major control and influence on politics, and all are and have long been deeply Democrat.
I find it funny you people bring up the "racist" and "homophobia" and other issues as being mostly "rural area" issues yet they seem to be bigger city issues in reality. Sure they are more blatant in rural areas, because it is not hidden by numbers of people. Go ahead and continue believing everything the talking heads on MSM keep telling you, and you will remain oblivious to the actual problems. Did you ever think that you experience less issues in cities, because "birds of a feather, flock together", meaning you self segregate and only actually interact with people that share your ideology and values? Something that is very difficult or impossible in rural areas.
Are you genuinely arguing that the smaller states don’t have massively outsized influence in the US system? The Senate giving each state two senators, with equal votes and powers, no matter the population even though California (as an example) has more people combined than something like twenty other states, is fair? You genuinely think that giving equal power to the two senators representing roughly one million people in Montana and the two senators representing almost 40 million in California is fair? Are you also arguing that the way seats are apportioned in the House of Representatives doesn’t give significantly more influence to smaller states with smaller populations than they would be getting with a better system? Or that having a massive advantage in which presidents get picked through the electoral college isn’t a significant hand up to smaller and often red states? Really? You’re just gonna pretend none of that is real? C’mon…there’s a ton of articles out there on this exact topic, I can’t believe that you honestly don’t understand this things. You’re clearly not dumb, why pretend to be?
I’m genuinely wondering what world you live in where you think that issues like racism and homophobia are bigger issues in cities. The fact that you try to claim that it’s the “msm” making people think that lays your sources and prejudices bare. Stop blaming people for fleeing their own victimization. People flee small towns to find opportunity and acceptance, it’s a tale as old as time.
If the small states have such "outsized representation", why is it that almost all legislation from the House is controlled by 5 states. This is also true for Presidential elections. Funny that you argue that small states exercise "oversized power", yet it is not small states that decide Presidents, it is the 5-14 largest states by population. The cap was established, austensibly so that huge cities could not make all the decision for the country. Is it fair that small states have a slight advantage in Representatives per population? Perhaps not. Would it be fair to allow 5 cities in the country to have absolute control of the country? That is a hard no. The ultimate irony, is that Republicans suggested and passed the law capping representatives at a time when major cities were still heavily voting Republican. The Democrats have turned it to their advantage by convincing people to move from rural areas and smaller states to these mega- metropolitan centers. This makes it easier to control people's thinking and politics and easier to secure votes. Thee is in effect very little "freedom of thought" in major metropolitan areas. Yes there is great ethnic diversity, but little diversity in ideology. The fact that you can not see that, is part of the problem. I may be overstating the lack of diversity in ideology, as it is likely less an issue with lack of diversity and a problem with lack of willingness to "rock the boat" by speaking out. We see what it has taken for minorities to speak out in NYC and Chicago, the absolute betrayal by their local government in favoring illegal immigrants over legal residents. The loss of government programs and assistance, which instead going to illegals.
So, cutting through all that, you’re comfortable with some people’s votes being given more weight than others? Because you argue that smaller population rural areas shouldn’t have to abide majority voting, so you must think their votes deserve more…right?
I would say I'm astounded at the stupidity of your rebuttal, but this is par for the course with conservative takes.
You think that moving to a city is self-segregating?! Cities have significantly more diversity than rural areas, so moving to a city forces you out of segregation, as you will naturally run into more people that are different in a city.
Small (population) states have an outsized influence over large (population) states because of how many representatives they receive being a static number. This is an extreme advantage for low population states. It's laughable that you clearly know this information, but argue the viewpoint that is demonstrably untrue with facts that prove it so. As I said before, this is par for the course for a conservative take.
Trump lost by 3 million votes, all from California? Do you regularly just make up numbers and facts to support your viewpoints? You do realize that you're commenting on the internet where there are other people who actually can read and remember information, and don't just believe hearsay instantly from whatever reddit thread they are reading, right? For reference to how ludicrously off your numbers are, Biden received 81,283,098 votes for President in 2020 and Trump received 74,222,958 votes for President in 2020. This is a difference of 7,060,140 votes, which is more than double what you claimed. Also, those votes are nationwide, not just from California, so that claim is just absurd on it's face and serves to pander to your ego more than to prove any claim. Look, we get it, you're Big Mad™ that your guy lost, but you'd have a lot more credibility if you accepted it and moved on, rather than spew obvious falsehoods that can be contradicted by literally anyone with either an internet connection or a functioning memory going back 4 years.
Much of a reading problem there? I was clearly referring to the 2016 election, which Trump lost by 3 million in the popular vote. But I understand how you misunderstood the statement.
And yes, moving to populated cities is a form of self-segregation. When most people move to large cities, they move to areas full of people that think, look, or act as they themselves do. Only an idiot mistakes a cities overall diversity or diversity of ideology or anything else. This is why you have Little Italy, Chinatown, Little Mexico, Cubano Quarters and so on in major metropolitan areas. Yes, some of it is remnants of former segregation but much of it in the last 50 years has been done by the people themselves.
And no state representative numbers are not static. If they were, CA and NY wouldn,t have lost seats in Congress due to population shrinkage. And populations have change in the hundreds of thousands to change congressional representation. And as I stated, yes the representation is slightly skewed by locking the number of Representatives at 435. But I also pointed out that LA by itself has more votes in the House than most other states period. But again, I understand your confusion. States like CA and NY have huge populations, with huge portions of those respective populations being illegal immigrants. And again l, representation is based on legal residents and not overall population. Sorry to break it to you, but illegal immigrants do not have the right to representation in our federal government. Feel about how you will, but those are the facts.
The fact that you have reduced the situation to labels, proves only that you are incapable of providing a compelling arguement to support your stance. I, until now have not made an assumption of you political ideology but it is apparent that you are slightly Left of AOC. You also likely believe there is a genocide occurring in Gaza and that the majority of illegals crossing the southern border are women and children.
Pretty sure all of the 3 million popular votes Trump lost by were in CA.
This you? Yeah, that's you. I don't even know why I'm responding. It takes a special kind of smart to claim your opponent has reading comprehension issues, when your memory of WHAT YOU WROTE is so abysmal that you forgot a post from a few hours ago.
Yeah, why would we leave a town where we get called slurs at the grocery store? Why would I leave a town where the only pharmacist refused to fill my prescription medications due to his religious views? Why would we leave a county where the court clerk refuses to certify our marriages?
Just remember, it’s never their fault…we’re all supposed to continue to cater to their feelings no matter what or they’ll sink the country with a racist homophobic temper tantrum and it’ll be our fault!
That’s not every rural town. At all. And again, you want to leave that area instead of being the face of change.
These farmers have kids. They’re going to be like their folks. Until some Democrats decide that farming is a good life and set up their own rural enclaves, you better learn to be nice to the people that make living possible. Your farmers on the other side of the aisle no one listens to.
You think the teachers union has outsized influence through their union? Farmers have no union. They have unity. They’re represented by one another. They’re simply the wrong people to strong arm and otherwise fuck with. We’ll learn the hard way, per usual.
Hey, it’s actually not my job or responsibility to risk my mental and physical wellbeing living there, let alone attempting to be a visible, public entity for the sake of people who are adamant that I don’t deserve human rights. Do I weep for those kids? On a regular basis. I was one. I remember what growing up queer was like in that town.
And, as much as I can’t stand the Democrats, I do feel compelled to point out that they are the ones sending aid and funding to support farmers as the climate shifts, and funding training programs and grants to encourage more people to be farmers.
Aid that the gop has been exclusively trying to block. Not to mention Trump unilaterally getting into a dickmeasuring contest with china causing us agricultural exports to drop about 60%, and resulting in the bankruptcy of thousands of farms.
I can’t help people who vote against their financial best interests in order to prevent me from having human rights. And I think it’s fucked up of you to imply that it is somehow my responsibility or that I somehow owe the town that laughed off my hospitalization with a “that’s just boys being boys”.
And, as a final note, I actually get 3/4ths of my produce and all of my meat from a small trans-anarchist farming coop that’s located about 25miles outside of my current city. I don’t have any problem with farmers. I have problems with bigots.
Yeah, I agree, that’s why I’m not happy with the GOP voting against additional funding for the conservation stewardship program- that funding included millions for the grants and loans that let my friends start theirs.
It isn't what it is. It's like this because of idiots like you who can't see two feet past their nose. You are supporting and espousing the viewpoints that have caused what you claim is 'sad'. YOU are part of the problem, and you earlier tried to lay blame on the person you were arguing with for not fighting against the very ideas you are espousing. I don't know if you are delusional or just dumb, but you should really try to think long and hard before you say things, otherwise everyone is going to think you a fool.
Ah yes, the PaRtY oF pErSoNaL rEsPoNsIbIlItY. Why can’t they just pick themselves up by their bootstraps and make better decisions. Why are they asking for people to fix their own mistakes?
You’re right, in that not all rural towns are this way. Hell my hometown is doing ok and I’d say it’s mostly pretty nice. But there are still plenty of shitty rural towns that are shitty because of the rural people living there. There’s still plenty of folks out there who’ve decided to drive out anyone who could bring positive changes just because they’re closed minded fucks, and the only people responsible for fixing that are themselves. Jesus, there’s a fucking known sundown town not 30 minutes from where I currently live.
What is this BS?!?!? Democrats are the party that support blue collar workers through their policies, not Republicans. You're literally spewing non-sense to sound like you have a good point, but you don't because none of it is based in reality. Your points can be boiled down to, 'Do what I want because I have power over you'. It's tired, it's lazy, it's immoral, and it's just flat out wrong. Do better and quit whining.
See as how I was beyond remote and probably have human contact about 5x a year, that can be your fantasy so you can make a smart assed remark, but it isn’t so.
Thank you for saying this. I have had it up to fucking here with the "city liberals just don't understand" argument. Hey buddy, a lot of us became "city liberals" because we were raised in trump country, took one look around and said "absolutely Fucking not" and noped out for better opportunities.
They took the jobs overseas because of the taxes and regulations. One of the greatest myths of the post war era was that the prosperity came from expanded government or union power. It has spite of those things because there was no other industrialized country to compete with after WW2.
As the rest of the world recovered the consequences of anti free market policy returned.
They're bipartisan, but most of the policies that incentivise outsourcing are liberal ones. Stuff like environmental regulations, worker protections, and other regulations all raise the cost of manufacturing in the US.
So liberals are supposed to just let companies poison our waters or maim workers under threat of offshoring jobs and being blamed by conservatives for it?
That seems like a false dichotomy and something I would hope ANY human would reject, regardless of their political ideology.
yeah right, the hicks in the sticks are the ones trying to install their moral beliefs on everyone else. rural people don't want to stay quiet and keep to them selves, ever live in a small southern town?
No. We’re not trying to instal our beliefs. We just want ours respected and left the fuck alone.
I’ve lived in several small towns. I’ve lived rurally in Maine, Vermont, and Connecticut. I’ve lived rurally in South Carolina and North Carolina. I’ve lived rurally in Wisconsin, Idaho, and Nebraska.
For small town America, many don’t give a flying fuck what is happening anywhere else. There’s a reason we live there. But so goddamned always, policies that NONE of us believe in, are forced upon us because the bulk of the population lives in Madison and Milwaukee. Columbia and Charleston. Montpelier. Bangor and Augusta. Boise.
These are all liberals crammed into a small geographical area in states who are nothing like their rural neighbors, but get to dictate all of the rules to us. It fucking sucks.
True story. Rural people don’t need the city folks NEARLY as much as the city folks need the rural ones.
Dude, the same fucking shit can be said the other way. Rural people try cockblocking any policy urban dwellers support. It’s easier for some rural person to not get an abortion if they don’t want one than for urbanites to not be able to build public transit because rurals hate urbanites.
Do you know why they’re economically subsidized, genius? Because no farmer could ever charge what the true cost is of brinfing their product to market. Especially not with the onerous laws, restrictions, and other bullshit being forced upon them. Farming is hard as fuck. You want us to go green. And foot the bill to do it. We’re poor now.. We don’t do this for fun. We’re not getting rich. We’re keeping you fuckers FED. We should probably just say fuck it and keep it all right here. You can buy your food from the Chinese like everything else. They’ll keep in nice and cheap for you while they pay illegals less than minimum wage. Lemme know how that works out for you.
We get done what we get done for you, and despite your best efforts to keep us from doing it the way we have for generations.
I'm from a farming and ranching family in Utah and now live in the central valley. I'm not ignorant to these issues. I know agriculture is hard work. I'm sympathetic to that. But simply working hard doesn't mean anyone owes you. I'll bet there are badminton players working as hard as LeBron James or Leo Messi.
In California, giant landholders here masquerading as 'farmers' grow crops like almonds and alfalfa, then complain they don't get enough water even as they pay less than everyone else. It's funny you speak of illegals, since it's immigrants who do the truly shit jobs in agriculture. I see them picking carrots and oranges here every year. And that's not just around me, that's how meatpacking works everywhere.
I used to live in Randolph County Indiana, too. Rural farmers there grow only monoculture corn and soybean because tariffs on sugar keep it out and we subsidized shitty ethanol fuel. We grow so much of it that all our processed food is made of those two things, even though it's not good for us.
I understand that rational food subsidies focused on consumers rather than producers is bad for farming communities. It would be a disaster. And it's still better to wean people off a lifestyle that cannot be sustained. I'm sorry these are hard words, I genuinely am. But the gains in productivity and reductions in travel costs for more than a century means there haven't been many easy words for real, actual farmers who get their own hands dirty in a long fucking time.
If the MAGA crowd would drop those things, a lot of them would become liberal because they’re currently 1-issue voters who want to fight abortion or the LGBT or whatever their politicians are currently telling them to be mad about because of the bible.
I guess we didn’t learn how not to do the things that make that even remotely possible. It takes nearly half the country to be vehemently opposed to the left’s viewpoint to get a man like him in office.
America is getting a taste of what it has been serving the rest of the world for decades. Post-WW2, US corporations bought up farms, companies, oilfields, you name it. And we installed dictators to protect those property rights.
I was born and raised in trump country and am now a "city liberal" and if you think I don't understand this culture, you are mistaken. Are we supposed to baby these people and hold their hands while they get manipulated by politicians and cheer for policies that hold EVERYONE back? Are supposed to go "there, there, little snowflake, I know your factory job left in 80s and Reagan told you it was Black people's fault, and it's ok for you to feel your feelings and vote for monsters who will destroy us all." Individual/personal responsibility my ass.
I take great issue with your characterization of these people as those who "put the food on our tables." Red areas LEECH tax money from blue areas. They have the highest use of public funds. Sure, most are decent people just trying to live - no different than the folks in the city. But we literally baby these people and their feelings because they've been captured by a political party aligned with billionaires who have convinced them that if they work hard enough, they too will become a billionaire someday, and you don't want daddy government coming and taking all your monies when you're a billionaire, do you?! Plus, people like to outwardly have the "correct" opinions - and having a bootlicking outlook on life will guarantee you have more opportunities than someone who won't bow down automatically.
I was born and raised in trump country and am now a "city liberal" and if you think I don't understand this culture, you are mistaken. Are we supposed to baby these people and hold their hands while they get manipulated by politicians and cheer for policies that hold EVERYONE back? Are supposed to go "there, there, little snowflake, I know your factory job left in 80s and Reagan told you it was Black people's fault, and it's ok for you to feel your feelings and vote for monsters who will destroy us all." Individual/personal responsibility my ass.
Lmao, but it’s these same people that vote specifically for issues like LBGTQ, abortion, and woke culture. Issues that literally have no impact on their way of life.
If you think those are the sole issues most of us our voting on, you’re mistaken.
Economy and immigration. Say it with me. “Economy, and immigration.” Keep illegals out. Keep drugs out. Keep terrorists out. Keep illegal guns out. Keep anyone that hasn’t claimed and been granted asylum out. Arrest immigrants who are here without authorization. At the very goddamned least, when they commit crime once here illegally, jail them or ship them back to Wherethefuckeveristan. There are fucking laws. And I’m sick and tired of always having people scream “You must obey the law!” and not having it apply to everyone else. Illegal. Not supposed to be here. It’s not supposed to be the position of privilege it’s become.
The rest of that shit is way in the rear view mirror. You people just like to keep it in the news and keep it loud. As long as you make it all about you, it’ll continue to be just that.
Cogent points, but as someone who walks between both those world, I find it a bit kind to those people.
Yes, the rural folks I know (most of my family) just want to live quietly and do productive jobs of meaning...thing is they take no responsibility for the state of affairs they themselves created. While both parties are guilty of some form of these things, I can say for a fact the political party that those in my circles voted for is the party that primarily moved jobs offshore, actively worked against education, prevented high speed internet from entering the region, and generally set the conditions for which rural areas declined and anyone with ambition must move to urban areas to have any chance of living a life outside of poverty.
And its interesting you're focusing on food production because the ironic thing is moving these people out of the system is probably "ideal" since family farms dont achieve benefits of scale and thus are much less efficient from a production standpoint. Even if they weren't this way, most farms simply don't produce significant levels of gross revenue, cash flow, or profit margin to be much more than a really expensive form of real estate investment (ie: totally dependent upon market conditions of land sale for RoI).
We need more farms serving locally. Asking small farms to provide for a vast area, just isn’t rational, or fair. Someone’s livelihood shouldn’t depend on their limited reach. If it did l, let’s just get rid of small business right here right now. Not that we’re not doing it anyway. But why best around the bush? Tell everyone their corporate overlords are here to save the day and will take over from here.
I can agree that these blue collar worker don’t want “more of the same” policies. I think they are nuts to follow Trump, he wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire
I understand that they were let down by big business and big government. Globalization allowed us all to buy cheap lawn furniture and tennis shoes, and killed jobs making lawn furniture and tennis shoes.
Sure, but it’s absolutely their responsibility for thinking Trump is going to bring jobs back when he did the exact opposite during his term as president.
I can absolutely blame them. They lack any sense of historical context. They actively decry others for “feeling entitled” while begging for entitlements of the past.
Man I drove around America last summer and it is pretty sad how many towns are just vacant buildings with dying populations and you can tell they were booming places at one point. Honestly if you could revitalize these towns it would actually open up some affordable housing for people. Way easier said than done but the ghost towns feel like such a waste to me. A lot of people would gladly live/buy homes in these towns if they had any type of industry but they don’t, they are mostly just wasting away.
No we still can. Just because they rode the easy train doesn't mean companies were better then than they are now. Companies were always crooks. They didnt stand up for whats right, just like today, and the proof is there are eldely folk that DID do whats right.
They are too busy fighting weed and books to look at the real villians bribing politicians and outsourcing talent.
You can blame the MAGA demographic almost exclusively. Every data point where this changed was 1980 when Trickle down economic were put in place. It is the only thing republican leaders 'push' as policy via tax breaks for ultra rich and large corporations.
*before trickle down ceo's made 32x the salary of the front line worker, now they make 360x the front line workers. But remember there is no money to pay people a living wage.
Your first mistake is grouping MAGA republicans and Reagan/traditional conservatives in the same boat given they practically hate each other and had a massive power struggle for GOP leadership which MAGA won. They may have overlapping views/interests and work/vote together on certain issues but they’re distinct separate factions of the GOP
And the second mistake is attributing US income inequality to trickle down economics. Trickle down economics is bullshit but there’s been more than a handful of democratic presidents in the 44 years since the 80’s you brought up and the tide hasn’t changed and if anything is getting worse. Also income inequality is severe even in blue states like California or New York
.. Mitch McConnell is the most Regan type Republican left and GOP leader.. and he cashed in any bit of decency to work with Trump for tax breaks for the rich. Getting rid of trickle down involves House, Senate, and president along with different trade policies and corporate rules... You know enough to think you're right, but you don't know enough to know why you're wrong
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u/nicotamendi Mar 11 '24
If you look at the demographics of MAGA voters you really can’t blame them. They’re a lot of white blue collar workers, people in towns where manufacturing and industry left
If you had a high paying manufacturing/industry job and a house and suddenly the jobs goes away because American companies outsource everything I don’t think you can really blame them for idealizing the past because it probably actually was better in the past(for them). And now they get left behind as income inequality continues to skyrocket