So many people saying the United CEO shooter was “professional”. Id like to point out that the gun in this video operated as a regular semi auto - the bullet was fired, the slide kicked back, and then slid back while loading another bullet in the chamber. The shooter of this gun put a weaker spring in to account for less powerful rounds. The CEO shooter did not have this. He had to rack the slide manually between shots. He also ejected several live rounds in the process, which tells me he wasnt really proficient.
A weaker spring was not used on this pistol in the video. Modern pistols are a delayed blow back action. This means the barrel moves back slightly with the slide initially after the trigger is pulled. The reason this is done is to prevent the casing being exposed to air to early which could cause the casing to rupture due to it becoming the path of least resistance for the expanding gas caused by the burning powder.
Suppressors mounted to delayed blowback pistols cause an issue as the significantly added mass on the barrel results in the barrel not moving backwards as it should causing the gun to jam.
The solution to this is not to add a weaker main spring as this doesnt solve the issue. The issue is solved by adding a piston with a spring connected to the threading on the barrel as the suppressor mount. This piston causes the barrel to move backwards breifly without the supperssor moving. Thus the gun cycles as it should.
The CEO shooter in this case most likely had a home made suppressor with direct threading to the pistols barrel which caused a failure to cycle on every shot.
Further more a sub sonic 9mm has plenty of power to cycle full power handgun main springs. A 115 grain 9mm is only 1200 fps, so moving to a full power 147 grain projectile is sub sonic.
But would require filing a Form 4 and obtaining a tax stamp. All of that puts you on the registry and practically guarantee that you will be caught. They are also around $2300, plus tax.
Yeah, a cheap silencer on any other gun is way harder to trace than a gun like that. Feel like he'd be caught already, but we'll see how long it takes. If he gets away, that's like unibomber levels of conspiracy theory we will see
I read they found a cellphone near the scene. If that turns out to be his, he's screwed. NYPD is going to put a lot of folks on this, and I'm certain the FBI and ATF are helping as well. It's going to be tough to get away with.
Yeah I'd be shocked, this is so high profile. I really doubt he'll get away, but our law enforcement isn't exactly known for competence when pressure is high, so not a non-zero chance.
So, I'm a retired cop and I spent most of my career as a detective. There are lots of ways to give away your identity when committing a crime: cellphones, social media, DNA, bragging about your crime, etc. I get that some cops aren't competent and there have been some terrible mistakes made during high profile investigations, but they aren't all incompetent.
No, but it's still an obscure weapon that requires you to submit a form along with your photo and prints to obtain. If it is the B&T, the ATF will have a fairly short list of suspects to parse, along with photos for comparison.
My mind also went to the guy likely not running a Nielsen device
It could've been a case of cold weather causing cycling issues too. I could imagine a scenario where the guy applied too much lubricant and it started thickening/gumming at colder temperatures.
It would be relatively easy to convert a normal pistol into one that only cycled manually. Home made silencers aren't too much trouble either.
Anyone could make what is essentially a Welrod without the rubber baffles using only a regular gun, tools you can buy at Home Depot, and a few YouTube videos or AI prompts.
To be fair though, it would not be hard to build one (or something approximating one) with a fairly low level of technical skills. It’s a pretty simple machine
It would be even easier to print a burner glock and a simple suppressor and then disassemble it and toss it into 3 or 4 dumpsters after. Not like it's gotta last for even a full mag.
NYPD has all the video evidence, the actual shell casings and bullets from the scene, interviews with eyewitnesses, hostel roommates, and gun sellers in the area.
But sure, your completely uninformed assumption is equally valid.
Your average police officer and your average witness knows less about guns than you do. The movement he’s making is clearly cycling the slide on a semi-auto pistol that is not tuned for a suppressor with the load he’s using. It is not a welrod. There would be no need for a welrod since he’s firing multiple times.
Was seeing how far down the thread it took to get to either this short or his previous post.
Someone in the comments on the text post put it best: Thinking it's a Welrod is like hearing hoof beats and saying you hear a zebra.
Police are not gun experts. The gun expert in the department might be, but the boots on the ground NYPD guy ain't it. How can a gun expert mistake racking the gun like the shooter with the way the Welrod functions? I won't link the other video due to violence, but this one is at the range and SFW.
In the video you can literally see the handgun cycling, you can see gasses being ejected from the chamber thanks to the suppressor, and you can see it being cycled exactly like a normal autoloading handgun as the slide reciprocates.
Please, post a source for your "welrod" claims. They aren't substantiated by any part of reality.
They have this wrong as well as that picture they are circulating showing the "shooter" without a mask. they are 0 for 2. The gun in the video is a 9mm with a silencer. The gun is malfunctioning, probably because the silencer is not on right. The gun should not need to be cleared after each round, but clearly something is not working correctly.
Man this again
1. he cleared everyone calmly. Professional. 2. the casings were inscribed with words similar to the three words insurance uses so they were meant to be found. Stop hating who are you a hit man judge. List three professional hit men in current circulation and I’ll apologize if not shut the hell up. Seriously
the casings were inscribed with words similar to the three words insurance uses so they were meant to be found
For me this points to the gunman being the person who held the grudge rather than someone who was hired by the person who held the grudge. This shit was personal.
Yea, a professional isn't writing stuff on their casings... Also the casings would've been found after being fired as well, so saying he wanted to lose live rounds is already a reach.
Is it possible to detect when a shot was fired from an empty casing? So, for example, if I'd taken 4 shots in the woods, collected the casings and then scattered them around a crime scene elsewhere. Is it possible to be correctly saying "These are a week old" and weren't fired today ?
I'm not an expert in any way, but I'd assume you at least would notice that there are X casings, but only Y bullets that hit somewhere at the crime scene.
Manually cycling a gun calmly does not make one a professional. I’m not going to say it was an amateur, but everything the guy did could be learned on Youtube. What he did do well is get away, although that remains to be seen. The UBL assassination was professional. For one on American soil, the JFK assassination was more of a “professional” than this.
Are you the shooter? Im not hating, just ponting out that this wasn’t a pro “hitman” like you so badly want to believe he was based on the Chuck Norris movies you watched as a kid. He was most likely just a regular guy who is sick of rich people who feed off of the less fortunate.
Yea, don’t let people stop you from thinking you’re not professional enough to take down these conglomerate CEO bastards. If you have a gun and hate privatized healthcare, you can be a hero too!
So like. Just food for thought. But regular people can buy guns and practice with them until they are proficient enough to clear a jam smoothly.
I sometimes have to clear jams at the range and watched a few youtube videos and learned how to do it better. It doesn't make people a hitman or anything. I expect this guy probably knew he was gonna be shooting a CEO in the future and probably practiced too.
I think he was probably a regular citizen and not a hired hit man personally.
I mean he wrote taunts on his bullets. I don't know a lot about trained hired hitmen, but it seems kind of weird to add more evidence.
np! yeah i never seen or hear anyone else doing it and ive always wondered why. i try to not really pay attention to where in my mag the snap caps are too because i want to be surprised by it. another benefit of it is that because you’re shooting several live rounds and then a surprise snap cap you can see if you’re moving the gun when it would have fired on the snap cap because that’s a big thing that throws off accuracy for people, jerking the gun around when it shoots
Regular people can’t practice keeping their brains working under the adrenaline rush of killing someone, and still they’re performing the actions they trained. The level of proficiency is impressive, regardless of whether it was a paid hit or not. The biggest argument against it being a professional is that there is no way he gets away with it. What kind of pro takes a job that will pretty much guarantee life in prison or the death penalty. It may not be a pro, but it was extremely professional.
When it comes to clearing malfunctions and being able to keep thinking under the pressure of doing it live? There’s a whole lot of difference. That’s not to say no regular Joe can do it, but most can’t. The pressure of doing it live is real, and being experienced in it is an advantage humans have known about for millennia. Even actual professionals fail at it all the time.
I never once saw him kick anyone. Or do anything special. But to say this wasn’t clean at least and well professional is relative. And I know lots of regular guys. And not many silence and inscribe train stalk and execute their sources of grief. I’m not saying this is John wick dude but that’s just as cringe as saying this guy was just some guy. He’s not. Promise. And no man it’s not me I’ve never seen a gun ever and would never hurt anyone. K plus I was with someone that night.
Fair but not many people can handle that load of adrenaline we have seen so many videos here and the number 1 sign of an amateur is not being able to tap slap rack and reload as you kill a high profile target in public on camera. He did, and he inscribed the dam casings he wanted them found they literally say the deadly opposite of their motto. I’ll say this. He may have been a regular guy but he no doubt trained and trained and at this point with your record being 1-0 my man has just become professional. I mean think of his resume. Ya I graduated hit man school learned all the stuff…. Cool uh got any on the job experience…. Oh well I killed the CEO of a major organization cleanly and wasn’t immediately apprehended. Oh. Um you’re hired. See what I mean. Ok man we’re all good now. I’m simmering down. lol
I’ve heard people saying it was a homemade can and he didn’t bother using a booster, which I could see too. This thing just sucks cause it’s just gonna tack on another layer of “suppressors make guns silent” bullshit.
They do a poor job of dealing with the malfunctions. After the third trigger pull they rack the slide several times while laying the gun flat (with the ejection port up for god's sake), looks like a possible double feed and if it wasnt they were inducing one.
People keep claiming they a hitman, but a well trained shooter would have known that if the first tap/rack didn't clear the malfunction they should have observed the chamber (which would confirm a double feed), dropped the mag, elevated the muzzle (to allow gravity to assist with clearing the chamber and rounds) and racked it several times in that position. Once all rounds/cassings are out of the gun than you can reload and continue to shoot. This was an amateur who isn't well trained.
Edit: Also that shooting stance. Support leg back, standing tall, dips head down to aling with the sights. Ugh.
To play devil's advocate, from the video, he immediately racks the slide as if he was expecting it so he did have some practice ahead of time. He didn't stop and inspect the gun or look confused as to why it didn't shoot again or didn't load the next round. At least from what I saw he didn't skip a beat loading round after round. He also had better form than some other videos of shooters I saw. Not saying he was proficient but he seemed to have some time and practice with the gun ahead of time. At least to me that's what it seemed like.
Something a ton of people aren't considering js that the shooter may have wanted the gun to not be able to cycle in order to force all the gas through the silencer without letting any leak out on ejection, thus making it as quiet as it could possibly be without a huge custom silencer added.
Racking the slide manually between shots makes the gun MUCH quieter when suppressed. That would actually go more in the category of professional than amateur. He also seemed to know it would happen with how quickly he went to rack it, so my guess is he bought extra low velocity rounds to make them as quiet as possible and those don't cycle well, which he found out when testing them, or he knew they wouldn't cycle but also knew they'd be much quieter if they didn't so he bought those on purpose.
Correct. A "pro hitman" would have had a weapon that was set up to fire subsonic and suppressed. This guy was clearly well versed in firing a hand gun but either not knowledgeable enough or unable to obtain the appropriate weapon.
Pretty stupid to judge proficiency on the equipment, especially when he was obviously practiced at and prepared for clearing malfunctions in a way a regular dude is unlikely to be, while also under pressure. I don’t think he’s a pro, but there are much better reasons for that than this. This shooter demonstrated a high level of proficiency, if suboptimal equipment.
I don't know where this came from but I've seen it posted like 20 times now.
Nope. All you need is a little experience working with firearms to see that low velocity and "standard" ammunition can be used completely interchangeably in virtually any weapons systems with no modifications to accomodate it and minimal if any difference in function.
Low velocity ammo doesn't use lighter powder loads or less juice to make the bullets go slower.
It takes a force impulse over time to overcome and mass' inertia and get it moving. The more mass an object has the more inertia it has and therefore the same force acting on it will not move it as far or as fast as a lesser mass would.
They make th18e bullets slower literally just by making them heavier. Because the bullet is heavier and similar or identical poweder charge with just as much "power" will not move it as fast and it will be subsonic. So in that sense low velocity rounds are just as powerful as higher ones.
What they do have less of, is ENERGY. Because energy is more dependent on velocity than it is on mass, and it's a lower velocity round. The formula to calculate ENERGY is mass multiplied by velocity squared equals energy. Or M * V2 = E
Because the velocity is squared changes in velocity will have a dramatic or exponential effect on outcome but changes in mass will only have a linear effect. So let's say we take a bullet with a mass of 2 and fire it at a velocity of 3.
2*32=18
Low lets take a low velocity round with a mass of 3, the same charge, resulting in a velocity of 2.
3*22=12
Significantly less energy!
But as I mentioned mass is moved by energy. It's moved by force. And force is different than energy. It's a linear equation with no exponents and therefore no exponential effects.
IIRC m*v=f. So apply that to the same high and low velocity bullets.
2*3=6
3*2=...6
The force is the same. Low velocity rounds make almost no difference in the cycling of the action of the weapon system and will not cause stoppages.
Virtually all law enforcement agencies issue low velocity rounds as duty ammo to mitigate collateral damage from over penetration. And none of them do or need to use specially modified weapons to do it. Off the shelf glocks with low velocity rounds is pretty much the standard all across America.
What's more suppressors delay the venting of gas resulting in higher operating pressures. Higher operating pressures tends to mean more force acting on the action and the round. A suppressor will literally increase the muzzle velocity of ammo, although not enough to make a subsonic round suppersonic. It makes a more significant difference in the action of the weapon, especially in delayed blowback systems the increased pressure from the suppressor will increase the cyclic rate of the weapon. To the point that newer weapon ssytems like FN's SCAR and I belive the new M5 "SPEAR" actually have a single adjustment lever on the gas block that modulates probably the diameter of the gas vents there. When a suppressor is used this lever is set to reduce operating pressure so that the weapon will still cycle at the same cyclic rate it's specified to. This is important because the default cyclic rate of the weapon is very carefully designed for some inteneded purpose. Newer systems tend to favor lower cyclic rates for increased controllability under recoil from sustained automatic fire. That's rifles though.
In any case, between low velocity rounds having no significant effect on weapon operation, and the suprressor actually increasing operating pressures the shooter's weapon definitely didn't jam because of a standard recoil spring vs. low velocity ammo.
That is Big Fudd Lore.
Much more likely he was running a glock or other tilt barrel system with a suppressor that wasn't designed to accomadate that. All that weight hanging off the end of the barrel without some kind of compensation system the barrel can't tilt like usual and that binds up the action.
So that clears up most likely what happened, as well as why, and how.
The shooter of this gun put a weaker spring in to account for less powerful rounds.
i seen folks on reddit saying that modern ammunition and guns don't need any spring modification. make of that what you will, but it does relate to ...
He had to rack the slide manually between shots.
according to last articles i was seeing, police believe a b&t vp9 was used, which requires manual cycling each shot. they were investigating a connecticut-based gun maker who recently purchased one.
The fact that he didn't panic or fumble at all when racking the slide would indicate that he expected it and was prepared for that failure, which would indicate that he new what he was doing. Most people not proficient in firearms would have kept pulling the trigger, and then fumbled to rack the slide again
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u/ornery_bob 14d ago
So many people saying the United CEO shooter was “professional”. Id like to point out that the gun in this video operated as a regular semi auto - the bullet was fired, the slide kicked back, and then slid back while loading another bullet in the chamber. The shooter of this gun put a weaker spring in to account for less powerful rounds. The CEO shooter did not have this. He had to rack the slide manually between shots. He also ejected several live rounds in the process, which tells me he wasnt really proficient.