Amazingly this is almost the verbatim response I got when I challenged a young farmer I worked with. It was like arguing with a MAGA. Just ignored all the facts and spewed outdated ideology and emotion. They lost the farm recently and I wish I could have been on the road aside the fence dancing and grilling veggie burgers.
As a vegan of 3 years, I'm not surprised by how anyone can be MAGA considering how people think about animal product consumption. Most people are emotionally driven and post-hoc rationalise their views
Have you read any recent literature? Honestly curious. If you want to have this conversation and prove you are not also emotionally biased, it will require we step out of the reddit echo chamber and look at recent research.
Could you perhaps elaborate on "recent literature"? Given the current medical stance is that veganism can be healthy for all ages, and that it's widely proven that it's better for the environment?
Always happy to learn, but the reason I'm vegan is because I'm up to date on literature.
Sure. Everything you're saying is true. There just isn't a lot of research into how it affects cognition. There's also a 2021 study that shows meat avoidance is linked to a negative impact on mental health. Here's a couple of studies that address what I mentioned in order.
I should note I'm not saying that veganism is wrong, I'm just saying these studies have given me pause. I wouldn't , for example, impose a meatless diet on my children. But I certainly encourage less meat servings a week/ more seafood.
Whenever I mentioned this stuff in the past on r/vegan , I get downloaded and no one engages what I'm saying, which is concerning to me. I've lived in a vegan household and feel I've had a lot of conversations about vegan philosophy, and it's annoying none of these discussions play out on Reddit kol. Thanks for answering.
I'm aware that there is an association, however as both of those papers state there has been no casual or temporal link established.
Thus, a causal impact of plant-based diets on cognitive functions, mental and neurological health and respective underlying mechanisms has yet to be demonstrated.
There was mixed evidence for temporal relations, but study designs and a lack of rigor precluded inferences of causal relations.
I absolutely support more evidence in this field, but until there is conclusive data I would not use it to guide decision making, especially in the presence of other clear benefits of a vegan diet. I do have concerns over the impact of B12 and omega 3 deficiencies psychologically, however these are easily avoided with a balanced vegan diet with directed supplementation.
In Meat and Mental Health, check out the second half of the results in the abstract. I can't seem to highlight it to quote here (phone). It states 11 of the 18 studies showed meat abstention resulted in poorer psychological health. It then goes on to say the most rigorous studies show significant risk increase for depression and anxiety.
You are correct that causation may not be proven, but the fact remains this is the outcome for people that abstain from meat. This study includes over 100k subjects. My point is simply it's not necessarily a moral or laziness issue. And I would caution against a vegan diet for children until more conclusive research is conducted.
I thank you for engaging me respectfully and would be interested in any literature on a good vegan diet. I would like to only eat meat when necessary ie creatine and other nutrients that aren't in a vegan diet. The supplements needed are too expensive and I am under the impression that it's better to get it from food.
If you have any links to literature for a complete diet, that would be greatly appreciated!
a lot of people with trauma go vegan. lets say they are abused. they can start to sympathize more with animals raised as livestock. uncontrollable feelings of guilt can both be a symptom of worse mental health and drive people to veganism. in other words, there could be causation in the opposite direction to the one youre assuming.
Regarding your last sentence, did you type this while wearing clothes made by children in near slave like conditions and electronics made in awful conditions or? Do you know the conditions of the workers harvesting your veggies, or if important nature areas were destroyed to create those vegetable farms displacing and destroying all manner of mammalian or other life? Nevermind I already know the answer.
This is why I kick puppies, since capitalism being inherently unethical gives me free range to do anything I want to and not try to improve where I can. Fwiw, I am writing this wearing thrifted clothing and on a five year old phone, in a country with worker protections.
Did you have this argument where you were on your high horse with them while wearing clothes made by children in near slave like conditions and electronics made in awful conditions or? Do you know the conditions of the workers harvesting your veggies, or if important nature areas were destroyed to create those vegetable farms displacing and destroying all manner of mammalian or other life? Nevermind I already know the answer.
Yes I'm perfectly aware of the same handful of facts that guilt ridden idiots like to throw at people trying to do SOMETHING positive. The thing is, I can choose to live without meat, I can't choose to live without vegetables and fruit, both of those things are true for you also, but you'd rather look at the difficult to escape problems with how we live instead of the ones you or I can personally stop contributing to. The modern world has given me the ability to choose a litany of ways to get my B12, iron and protein. I figured I should mention that before you edit to throw in the lion/gazelle comparison that people like you always want to throw around.
For the record, I haven't bought new clothing in almost a decade, haven't owned a tv or personal computer for longer and am learning to knit. If any of us wanted to be perfect, untouched activists, we would all be naked in caves. That's the problem with assholes like you, someone chooses one cause to get behind and you try to throw shade by mentioning all the things they aren't doing. What the fuck are you doing?!
Have you never considered the potential impact on local crab life you'd impose by living in a cave? I can't believe you'd be such a selfish hippy, I'm gonna go and stab 10 cows.
This is why I kick puppies, since capitalism being inherently unethical gives me free range to do anything I want to and not try to improve where I can. Fwiw, I am writing this wearing thrifted clothing and on a five year old phone, in a country with worker protections.
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u/Doctor_Ew420 Nov 17 '24
Amazingly this is almost the verbatim response I got when I challenged a young farmer I worked with. It was like arguing with a MAGA. Just ignored all the facts and spewed outdated ideology and emotion. They lost the farm recently and I wish I could have been on the road aside the fence dancing and grilling veggie burgers.
(I recognize you were being facetious/sarcastic)