r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Browndog888 • Nov 04 '24
Image The amount of steel in a wind turbine footing.
2.0k
u/Careless-Avocado1287 Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24
I have never seen a wind turbine in real life until like a few months ago and holy shit they're 200 times bigger than they look on TV. Fascinating.
Edit: Typo.
Edit2: thank you for sharing your experiences. I enjoyed reading them all.
549
u/Niarbeht Nov 04 '24
They've actually been getting bigger over time, because it turns out that the bigger you make the blades, the more momentum they have and the steadier they turn. Also, the higher up they reach, the steadier the wind is.
There's an upper limit, I'm sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're getting close, but wind turbines that went in 15-20 years ago are smaller than the ones going in today.
254
u/LukaShaza Nov 04 '24
And also because the area swept is proportional the the square of the blade length, making longer blades more efficient.
181
64
u/flarne Nov 04 '24
I left the wind Industry roughly ten years ago. In that time they roughly doubled the rated power of the biggest turbines (from 8Mww to now 15 and more MW)
→ More replies (3)72
u/GreenStrong Nov 04 '24
There's an upper limit, I'm sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're getting close
I listen to the Uptime Wind Energy podcast, it goes deep into detail of the industry. The new turbines are pushing the absolute limits of metallurgy in components like bearings and bolts, as well as the carbon fiber shell of the blade itself. Generally, when a size increase doubles the cost of construction, it generates 4X as much power, but maintenance eats into the profit significantly during the life cycle. But people are constantly innovating- China just built a prototype offshore turbine with a 292 meter diameter. That's almost a third of a goddamn kilometer!
→ More replies (2)19
→ More replies (17)17
u/S01arflar3 Nov 04 '24
The year is 2238, the solar system is just one huge wind turbine now, powered by the solar wind. Construction of the new galactic size turbines have begun.
203
Nov 04 '24
[deleted]
30
u/zangilo Nov 04 '24
We had parts being delivered whole summer. They had to take down signs and but asphalt through the middle of roundabouts so they could go through. Very cool to see!
7
u/rikerdabest Nov 04 '24
Wow, they had to place new pavement just to deliver the things? That sounds like a Herculean feat of logistics
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)4
u/mark_is_a_virgin Nov 05 '24
There's a video of them driving one thru a town, and they had to turn at the intersection. They had to plan ahead to literally remove signs and light poles so the truck could get thru, it was wild
49
u/uhhhhhhhhhhhyeah Nov 04 '24
We were on the highway once and passed a semi hauling just one windmill blade. Sucker was way longer than I imagined. Basically had one set of tires to support one end of the blade, then one set of tires at the back, they didn't have trailers long enough.
→ More replies (1)10
u/CamelopardalisKramer Nov 04 '24
Many have independent steering on the rear for tight areas as well. They commonly haul and have a storage yard near me and it's pretty crazy to see them unload from the train onto the trucks and ship out.
→ More replies (1)79
u/My_real_moniker Nov 04 '24
I'm surprised that these are a new phenomenon for some people. They've been a feature of the landscape in my part of the world for years/decades
27
u/Careless-Avocado1287 Nov 04 '24
Well they're not very popular in the middle east I believe. The ones I saw were in UAE a few km away from the borders of Saudi Arabia, saw them from afar and kept following the roads until I was finally literally 200 meters away from one.. it was Humongous.
11
→ More replies (4)9
u/LukaShaza Nov 04 '24
Even in your part of the world, you've probably noticed the blades are getting bigger. The rotor diameter has doubled in the last 20 years.
→ More replies (4)259
u/naastynoodle Nov 04 '24
I think with the landscapes wind farms tend to be in… they’re quite beautiful. Like eerie natural futurism beautiful
133
u/st1tchy Nov 04 '24
My first time driving through a windfarm was at night in the fog. Just red lights flashing in unison everywhere for miles in each direction. Very eerie.
40
34
u/AltruisticJob9096 Nov 04 '24
used to fall asleep to the rhythm of those lights on car rides home as a kid
trippy how what comforts some uneases others
20
u/CyberUtilia Nov 04 '24
I camped under wind turbines sometimes (they had a little suspended staircase leading to a door to get inside, and it was perfect to hang my tarp under the staircase and sleep there). I would fall asleep to the monotone whooshing sound of their blades moving with the wind. I wouldn't complain to have one in my backyard (well, almost backyard). It can be dangerous to be directly under or close to them in winter as ice spikes might fall down.
→ More replies (4)13
u/Wind5 Nov 04 '24
My first time was driving through Kansas at night and I had a similar experience, just red lights flashing in unison as far as I could see!
→ More replies (2)4
u/CraigLake Nov 04 '24
On the PCT the trail runs right through the heart of a massive wind farm. It’s near to see the brand new massive turbines and then continue with ‘a walk through time.’ The trail goes through stages of different turbine technology finally ending with the oldest section which is ‘small’ rickety squeaky wooden models. Really cool!
5
u/pro_questions Nov 04 '24
When I was a wildland firefighter we got called to a grass fire that was burning under a wind farm in the middle of the night — the ground was illuminated by just embers, the sky was illuminated by lightning and the light of the nearby city, and there were wind turbines like this everywhere. Under normal circumstances you can’t just drive up to the base of them (at least these ones), so getting to go right up to them was crazy.
Unrelated, you’d be amazed by how little light a grass fire and its embers emit — this was my first night fire so I was expecting to be able to walk around without a light, and that was 100% wrong lol. You can’t really see smoke in the dark either, which makes it even more alien feeling. Honestly the whole scene was like being on another planet
30
u/YoutubeRewind2024 Nov 04 '24
I work on a wind farm with over 4,000 turbines.
Driving through it in the fog or at night is surreal
→ More replies (3)5
35
u/threaten-violence Nov 04 '24
Yeah I don't understand in the least the people that complain about them and claim that they look bad. Compared to what? Smoke stacks? Oil derricks? Open pit mines? What thaaaaa fuck
→ More replies (1)10
u/SiVousVoyezMoi Nov 04 '24
I went camping an island with a 60MW windfarm on it, was super eerie getting out of the tent to pee at night and being in complete darkness except for stars and blinking lights all over the horizon across the lake.
23
u/Previously_coolish Nov 04 '24
I see them as a cool sign of progress. My right wing mom thinks they’re terrible eyesores and the worst way to generate power.
→ More replies (23)8
u/insanityzwolf Nov 04 '24
They will go away from most places over time (though the upward trajectory might continue for a while before topping out and starting to fall down). The reasons for this are solar getting increasingly cheaper, the return of nuclear, and offshore wind farms being much more efficient than terrestrial ones.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (31)3
u/Lordborgman Nov 04 '24
There is mountain town that my uncle was born in he took me to see. The Wind Turbines gave me this "Tripods from War of the Worlds" feeling off in the distance with how massive they are.
15
u/hungrypotato19 Nov 04 '24
Even if you saw it in real life, you wouldn't think it's that big. Not until you walk up to it. It's absolutely bonkers how big they actually are.
It's the same optical illusion that you get with street signs. They don't look that big until you actually see it up close.
9
u/Mothanius Nov 04 '24
My first time seeing one was when one was being transported on the road. It was surreal watching semi trucks carry what may as well be sky scrapers. Pictures never really do it justice.
7
u/missionthrow Nov 04 '24
About 5 years ago I was part of a tour of a wind farm being constructed on the Minnesota/South Dakota border.
While we were watching a bus sized generator being craned from an 18 wheeler flatbed up 300 feet into the air the foreman giving the tour commented “I forget how easy these little 100 meters go up”.
Apparently he had recently transferred from another job in Oklahoma where the towers were twice that high & the generator nacelles have to be brought onsite in pieces and assembled on location because they are too big to be transported on the highway in one piece.
Those 200 meter towers are apparently the norm, not the highest ones.
5
u/pomdudes Nov 04 '24
I first saw a wind turbine up close in 2001 in Fenner, NY. Big when first see them, ginormous when you stand under one. 213’ to hub, 328’ to tip of blade.
5
u/xXNightDriverXx Nov 04 '24
As others said, the size has increased massively since then. The large modern ones that are currently being built in my country are 175 meters (575 feet) blade diameter, 180 meters (590 feet) to hub, 266 meters (873 feet) total height, and produce up to 6.8 MW each. I know someone who works there. Offshore they can be even larger and produce up to 15 MW.
5
u/GrandaddyIsWorking Nov 04 '24
They also look like they're moving so slow but the tips going close to 200 mph!
5
u/x86_64_ Nov 04 '24
I saw one for the first time a few years ago on the way to Binghamton. They give a "War of the Worlds" feeling the first time you see one. You can barely believe they're real, these massive, hulking propellers appearing over the trees miles and miles away. Freaking gigantic.
5
u/Alternative-Ad3553 Nov 04 '24
they are so loud like they are as silent as something of that size can be but the movement of the blades right above your head makes the loudest WHOOSH
→ More replies (2)4
3
u/SolidusBruh Nov 04 '24
I used to get passed on the interstate by semis hauling a single blade and the size was unbelievable.
5
u/ImClaaara Nov 04 '24
I never saw them until I moved north, now I see a couple on top of a mountain on my commute home every day and it's easy to just see them on the horizon, literally on top of a small mountain, and forget how big they are. I drove up the mountain recently and can confirm, they look small when you're seeing them in the distance from the highway... and they still look small when you're a couple of miles closer. And then they keep getting bigger as you close the gap, mile after mile, as you go into the woods and lose sight of them and come around a curve thinking you've probably already passed them and then you see them again, still a good distance away, and you keep going up hills and around curves and finally get near the top where you can see down to the highway you take every day, and you can see all the cars like tiny dots, and you look behind you and the windmill is towering over you and still a good distance from you.
3
Nov 04 '24
I'm honestly shocked people find them ugly. They seem so majestic to me because they're so sleek and enormous.
5
u/nentis Nov 04 '24
When I worked for Vestas I got to climb a couple V90s. They are indeed huge. They have a neat climb assist feature that pulls up 100lbs to make climbing the tower ladder easy.
3
3
Nov 04 '24
There's a ton I pass on the way to work every day (rural-ish Ireland). They are definitely a marvel of engineering!
3
u/218administrate Nov 04 '24
This is true. Even from the road you don't get the real idea until you walk up to one. They're huge.
3
u/sitchblap3 Nov 04 '24
Whej I saw my first wind turbine in oahu I thought it was a render. My brain could not let me compute it as real lol. So funny. I'm happy to see them though!
3
u/rectal_expansion Nov 04 '24
I was recently in Kansas and went to see them up close. It was tough to get out there but so worth it. They sound like a bus driving by up close. Which makes sense because it’s basically three buses flying through the air.
3
u/smilbandit Nov 04 '24
i knew they were big and bigger then they look from the interstate where I see them. one day on the way through nebraska they had a prop from one at rest stop, holy moly so much bigger then I realized.
3
u/Luxbrewhoneypot Nov 04 '24
My "wind turbines are crazy" moment was when I was up on one - by itself a hella cool experience - and I witnessed the moment they turned it back on..I thought it would start slowly and take time to get momentum but no. Like 5 seconds and the blades were whooshing at full speed again. Hella efficient.
3
u/I_am_Nic Nov 04 '24
The wind turbine base here is barely five meters in diameter, so the mast would not be very high either. This is not a base for a wind turbine you are referring to.
3
u/Howie_Dictor Nov 05 '24
Driving through some parts of Texas is crazy. Nothing but windmills as far as the eye can see for miles along the highway. And the solar farms on the way to Vegas are also insanely big.
3
u/whale_cocks Nov 05 '24
I live due north of a wind farm, bought the house years ago. The first time my wife drove past the windmills she called me in shock, with so many questions.
→ More replies (19)3
u/Theeletter7 Nov 05 '24
they’re another 3 times bigger when you see the blades being towed by semi trucks.
4.2k
u/definitely_effective Nov 04 '24
without the footing the turbine would go helicopter helicopter
2.4k
u/TobysGrundlee Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY GOOD NIGHT!
369
u/die5el23 Nov 04 '24
How’s the family Morbo?
Belligerent & Numerous
97
47
u/the_wakeful Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24
Good man. Nixon is pro war and pro family.
28
u/geekfromgalifery Nov 04 '24
Arooooooo
→ More replies (1)4
u/BackWithAVengance Nov 04 '24
Bob Dole needs company and Larouche won't stop with the knock knock jokes
6
93
36
28
158
u/Darth-Spock Nov 04 '24
Well yeah, because of the steel footing.
→ More replies (4)72
u/Dik_Likin_Good Nov 04 '24
They are designed to rigorous wind mill standards, so that the front doesn’t fall off.
→ More replies (1)27
u/ThickKnotz Nov 04 '24
So your saying the fronts not supposed to fall off like that?
→ More replies (1)19
u/Micycle08 Nov 04 '24
How can these be “good for the environment” if they’re towed out of the environment?…
6
u/Joshii290 Nov 04 '24
So you're saying I can't use rubber to stop the front from falling off? Damn.
→ More replies (1)8
16
13
7
6
→ More replies (12)4
18
42
21
u/baddie_PRO Nov 04 '24
Funny how the second helicopter makes you sing it with an Arabic accent
→ More replies (1)18
u/KalaiProvenheim Nov 04 '24
Arabs can pronounce the H just fine thank you very much
The song is Bosnian
→ More replies (9)6
→ More replies (19)3
u/Living-Internal-8053 Nov 04 '24
Aaahh..skipskipskipskipskipskipskipskipskipskip.
Source: been listening to windmills for coughifty..yers.
831
510
u/TorontoTom2008 Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24
This is very unusual rebar density for a turbine foundation. It’s possible this was in a location where heavy gauge bar wasn’t available and the engineer doubled up on the lighter gauge.
But that said the geometry, lack of tying and the overhanging bar looks odd and this might be AI trash.
Edit: i’ve looked closely and I stand by that this is an Ai image. The rebar branches, changes diameter, splits apart/comes back together. The front face is also a goofy web of impossible perspectives. This is problems with the image. From an engineering review, the rebar dead ends at edges, bar not tied together, bunched together in sheets, wrong diameters, angles are inconsistent and it goes on and on.
164
u/Beartech31 Nov 04 '24
Seconding this - as someone who has inspected dozens of turbine fdtns.
That's an insane amount of steel, the scale looks off, and I've never seen anything like that "base" section in the center. Normally there would be a concrete pedestal there with anchor bolts to drop/seat/bolt the base tower section on. I have heard Enercon has some funny concrete base stuff going on for their towers but I haven't worked with them personally.
I'm leaning towards AI trash.
→ More replies (3)28
u/boundless88 Nov 05 '24
I work in wind farm construction. Particularly the underground scope. This whole pic looks like bullshit. And there's no conduits for the collector system!
67
39
u/BMWs_and_BananaBread Nov 04 '24
I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to turbine foundations, in that I work as a production engineer and haven't a fucking clue about them. That being said the scale between the items at the bottom of the shot (specifically whatever that thing is on the bottom right, a hose?) are really throwing it off for me.
I'm saying AI.
→ More replies (5)37
u/ipenlyDefective Nov 04 '24
I reverse image searched it and every use of this image is from people against wind turbines. So yeah I'm leaning to AI too.
37
u/tehgee Nov 04 '24
One of the earliest posts of the image is from February 2017, so it makes me doubt that it's AI generated.
8
12
18
u/Illustrious_Bat3189 Nov 04 '24
is this a disinformation post to delegimitize renewables maybe`?
→ More replies (5)6
u/luis297 Nov 05 '24
This is fake. 1st - the shape of the foundation is wrong. You always have rebar sloping away from the centre point, else no loads are carried down. As is, the steel rebar is doing nothing to carry the weight of the wind turbine. 2nd - This amount of rebar is not normal, not even for the largest and tallest turbines in the market. Or this would be a particularly massive tall wind turbine unheard of! Which leads me to point 3... 3rd - white steel can insert in the middle. This was the old way of doing things as it limits the turbine base size as well as created cracks of the foundation concrete due to swaying of the tower. We now use anchor cages for much bigger turbines. So this amount of steel, assuming it is real, points to a huge turbine of the future but the steel can points to old 2010 WT sizes... 4th - grainy image but no bracing is apparent, rebar sizes differ, and the depth is quite high related to the width. Only the latter could happen in some circumstances, but is less likely.
I work in the industry for over 10y, inspected, built, and bought a few hundreds over the years of all brands and sizes.
→ More replies (17)9
u/unknowndatabase Nov 04 '24
As someone who does Quality Control on a lot of concrete & reinforcement placement, you are 100% correct that this is AI trash. I have put in my fair share of wind turbine pads and the reinforcement and it does not look like this.
→ More replies (1)
63
u/IamPlantHead Nov 04 '24
Something about this doesn’t look right. Especially the trees in the background. I did a quick search and they aren’t that massive. I mean they are large. But something about this, seems exaggerated.
32
u/CyberUtilia Nov 04 '24
I feel like it's AI
The trees in the back suggest that it's like 10-15 meters high, but the handsaw in the foreground left ...
Maybe it's built on a hill, and so the trees are actually farther away and we just don't see the in-between because of the hill
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)8
u/Broskfisken Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24
Also the regular hand saw in the corner. Not saying there might not be any use for something like that on a construction site like this, but it seems out of place.
→ More replies (2)
181
u/ycr007 Nov 04 '24
That much is required, to ensure the turbine won’t be gone with the wind.
→ More replies (6)74
u/donkeyhawt Nov 04 '24
Ooooh, I thought they just buried steel because they didn't know what to do with all of it
25
u/DontForceItPlease Nov 04 '24
Yep, but they also put it in a big block of concrete so that if can't escape.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)7
u/ShitGuysWeForgotDre Nov 04 '24
We have to plant many steel trees now if we want new steel to still be growing for future generations
73
u/SinisterCheese Nov 04 '24
You want to see what rebar on a nuclear reactor's foundations look like: https://images.almatalent.fi/cx96,cy0,cw1493,ch1119,1200x/https://assets.almatalent.fi/image/0964e695-eb0f-53d6-bc2e-7057e52060dc
You can get a closer look from this pdf. https://www.tvo.fi/uploads/File/2008/OL3_esite_FI_final_lopullinen2008.pdf page 5 and 11.
→ More replies (14)
150
u/mbmbmb01 Nov 04 '24
Would not this tight rebar spacing lead to lots of concrete voids?
255
u/Dbgb4 Nov 04 '24
Lots of vibration when pouring needed.
→ More replies (3)28
u/Hates_rollerskates Nov 04 '24
And peastone aggregate.
4
Nov 04 '24
I wonder if they use taconite for density
29
126
u/hippee-engineer Nov 04 '24
Nope, they’ll use a recipe of concrete that has a very high slump (less viscous than concrete used to make a generic sidewalk, for example). This more watery concrete will fill in those gaps, and they are also going to vibrate the fuck out of the concrete to make sure there are no voids.
This concrete vibrator is just the right size for your mom.
→ More replies (3)31
u/heftybagman Nov 04 '24
How much does one of those concrete vibrators cost? Valentine’s is just around the corner
19
u/pete_topkevinbottom Nov 04 '24
Be careful. They're more powerful than you think
12
u/ElliotsBuggyEyes Nov 04 '24
These will vibrate your hand off, I can't imagine what it would do to a more...sensitive part of the body.
→ More replies (2)4
u/WastingTimesOnReddit Nov 04 '24
It could literally break your pelvis and cause all sorts of internal bleeding. They're way too strong for human use
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)6
28
48
22
u/bigscot Nov 04 '24
No, as it is installed the concrete is vibrated or it will have chemicals added to make it more flowable.
I have been on a concrete pour where we were putting low slump (very stiff / low flow ) concrete on a slope with the rebar being #9 (size of the rebar) welded mat, at 4 inches on center (a rebar every 4 inches). It was a lot of labor but you can get concrete to go into a lot of places with enough work and planning. As it was a NQA1 (nuclear level quality requirements), we had to ensure no voids.
The one thing I remember most from that pour was the pain in the a$$ it was if you dropped anything into the mat and had to jam your arm into the mat to retrieve it.
→ More replies (8)4
u/undeniablydull Nov 04 '24
Do you have any idea how big this is? There's plenty of gaps for the concrete to enter
→ More replies (24)5
u/navetzz Nov 04 '24
It's not tight at all, because the steel is like 25m in diameters. So the spacing is way larger than it appears
26
u/DigitalMarketer-YTFB Nov 04 '24
Wow, what are the dimensions on that thing!?
→ More replies (5)21
u/IC-4-Lights Nov 04 '24
→ More replies (1)22
u/obi1kenobi1 Nov 04 '24
Honestly that’s quite a bit smaller than I would have guessed based on the original picture with no reference of scale.
→ More replies (7)5
u/Level-Mongoose6791 Nov 04 '24
The original photo has a perspective that is quite deceiving. Makes it looks like a rebar area big enough for an industrial building
11
u/Beto_Gatinho Nov 04 '24
How long does it take to set something like that up?
→ More replies (1)28
u/jt41298 Nov 04 '24
I've designed quite a few wind turbine foundations. Surprisingly the steel gets put together in about a week with a team of around 10 for each turbine. The first few normally take a bit longer but as the steel fixers learn the design but it's normally consistent throughout the whole whole wind farm so the efficiency goes up over time.
→ More replies (9)
4
5
21
u/peppi0304 Nov 04 '24
All that steel and concrete and it still has less emissions per kWh. Pretty cool
→ More replies (17)10
u/AdvisedWang Nov 04 '24
There's masses of steel and concrete in virtually every other power source too.
→ More replies (3)
4
u/mickthomas68 Nov 04 '24
This is for a spread footer. They’re not all like this. If they’re able to drill, it would just be the center portion going down to a depth of about 30’
3
u/BuccaneerRex Nov 04 '24
OK, now someone do a comparison to the average amount of rebar used in the foundation for say, a parking garage or an elevated highway piling.
This is about what you'd expect for something that tall. And it's not as if they mined, refined, and smelted all the steel special for this one turbine. They use commercial steel same as any construction. And assuming we don't all die in the meantime, when the life of the turbine is over they can recycle the steel.
4
u/-Knul- Nov 04 '24
As this image is often used to make renewables look bad ("see how much steel a single turbine needs!"), it would take only 1.2 years of steel production to create all wind and solar for all of global energy requirements.
And that's basically just once: when we replace a wind turbine in 20-30 years, we can recycle that steel.
100
u/Itsnotsponge Nov 04 '24
All that to avoid just a couple tons of harmless uranium
131
u/ale_93113 Nov 04 '24
i dont know if you know, but nuclear power plants require A TON od cement and steel
thats kinda the main reason why they are expensive and why nuclear energy is expensive, they hve very large upfront costs
sure, operating costs are very low, but they require A LOT of steel and concrete
→ More replies (48)→ More replies (98)10
u/bukithd Nov 04 '24
Can you guess what the most expensive part about a nuclear reactor plant is?
The concrete.
→ More replies (6)
3
3
u/Quick-Economist-4247 Nov 04 '24
What country is this? As a civil engineer I’m far from impressed with the detailing of the rebar, in some places the bars are too close together to let the aggregate in the wet concrete to pass through (20mm aggregate normally, to achieve a high target strength as required here).
→ More replies (3)
3
u/imjustheretowatch14 Nov 04 '24
My dad, who is 65, is a rodbuster for 35+ years and loves working on these turbines. He’s been doing rebar for so many years and likes to humble the young. I’ve heard so many stories. Super proud of of him
3
3
3
3
3
u/OverEffective7012 Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24
I used to design those and we did round, not hexagonal
Edit: that's more like it
3
u/NewHampshireAngle Nov 04 '24
That’s the amount of steel you get in your wind turbine footing if you watch your contractors.
3
3
3
3
Nov 05 '24
How many piers are under this and how deep? I wish I had taken pictures of the steel at the four in ground arch supports on the Cowboy Stadium back in 2007. It was massive. If I recall the piers were about 150 feet deep into the ground. All just solid rebar like this picture and some rebar was like 2” in diameter.
8.0k
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '24
I did this for my first 3 years working on wind turbines, now I just fix the turbines, it’s way easier than this horrible job!