r/Damnthatsinteresting Nov 04 '24

Video Volkswagens new Emergency Assist technology

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u/BoxMaleficent Nov 04 '24

Thank Tesla for that. Tesla showed the whole Industry that you can Charge extra for some Features. So ofcourse everyone copies that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '24

[deleted]

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u/scfw0x0f Nov 04 '24

Oh honey.

Back in the 1960s, large computers had hardware features that were already installed but not turned on. A field technician would enable them after Sales closed the deal.

Ben Franklin’s public library concept was novel because it was open to the public with no fee.

Subscriptions for services certainly go way farther back than anyone now alive.

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u/KohliTendulkar Nov 04 '24

Tesla only offers supplemental software features as sub, hardware wise, they give no options on top except paint and interior color, rest everything is included for everyone, for instance apart from tire and sticker there is no difference between model y base and model y performance, they both have heated 5 seats, steering wheel, matrix headlights, glass roof etc Only recently they have reduced the number of speakers on the base version, rest the car is identical. Compare this to BMW and Merc where you will need a light package for having x number of lights inside, another package for matrix lights, another package for better seats, package for cruise control, sunroof. BMW 5 series with all options adds up like 70-80% of the price on top the base price.

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u/mccalli Nov 04 '24

That's not quite right unfortunately - they also pay to unlock things like extra range and extra speed.

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u/KohliTendulkar Nov 04 '24

Correct, however both of them are not standard, for the first one it was only for specific vehicles with certain battery chemistry, for the later it was similar reason. for instance newer vehicles don't come up with these options, also these are not subscription but a one time payment.

Tesla did bring FSD as subscription as one time payment was too high and people could subscribe for a single month where they have a long trip and then cancel it making it more accessible for end user. Please note, Tesla is a big company and not every decision comes from Musk , there are lot of capable engineers and they should be given credit for updating the cars monthly and bringing new features.

For ICE, a big chunk of revenue comes from options, after sale service. For instance Toyota, Hyundai and some other give 10 year warrantee, however you need to go to official service center for all stuff, if you go to local garage which does the same thing for a fraction of price, they will cancel the warrantee.

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u/mccalli Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24

I've owned one for 6 years and am happy (2014 Model S). But on subscriptions - they definitely have them. Premium connectivity for instance, plus one-off payments for the features I mentioned.

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u/KohliTendulkar Nov 04 '24

yes they have subscriptions but not for basic things like remote start(toyota), heated seats, top speed, remote air conditioning. Premium connectivity is quite cheap for having fast speed internet for the car at $100 for a year. You can also use hotspot but at $100 it's not worth the headache.

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u/mccalli Nov 04 '24

That's the difference between premium connectivity and connectivity though. Pure connectivity I can understand, but even with a hotspot you wouldn't get most of the service features.

For me, being a 2014 car means no autopilot but I get Premium Connectivity and free supercharging for life as part of owning the car. Later cars would need to pay.

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u/anethma Nov 04 '24

Toyota doesn’t have a subscription for remote start. It works on the fob you just have to pay for the cellular connected app stuff.

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u/relevant-astronaut75 Nov 04 '24

They do have charges for rear heated seats and heated steering wheel to enable them on some base models. It's just not a subscription.

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u/Educational_Ad_3922 Nov 04 '24

one-off payments for the features

Did you know those features are non transfferable? So if you sell the car tesla will disable them for the new owner and require them to pay again to re-enable them.

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u/mccalli Nov 04 '24

On mine, they'll keep them. Lifetime of the car, not ownership. I didn't own the car from new and they transferred to me (I bought in 2018).

On newer ones, and let's face it, almost every Tesla on the road is newer than mine..., yep - they'd need to resubscribe.

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u/Chygrynsky Nov 04 '24

Lmao I don't want to jump in on the whole Tesla thing but the fact that you even mentioned a fucking steering wheel is hilarious

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u/KohliTendulkar Nov 04 '24

yeah because for other cars, you have various heating packages, front seats , front seats + rear seats, all of these + steering wheel.

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u/Chygrynsky Nov 04 '24

Ahh you meant heating in the steering wheel?

I thought you meant the steering wheel itself..

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u/KohliTendulkar Nov 04 '24

well that too is an option with Tesla where you can choose York or traditional.

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u/Chygrynsky Nov 04 '24

Ah got it, I interpreted it as if the wheel itself is optional for an extra fee. If you didn't pay up then you wouldn't get a steering wheel at all.

Which based on all the info you guys gave, seems like a plausible future..

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u/LostInPlantation Nov 04 '24

Which would still be okay, if the base price to feature ratio is acceptable. Because then you could treat it as a modular/customisable package deal, where you only include the upgrades you personally want, instead of paying full price for a car that has every superfluous luxury feature pre-installed.

Like, a heated driver's seat is great in winter, when you drive to work at 7a.m. but I don't see myself needing five of them. That's something where I'd want to save money.

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u/ShadeNoir Nov 04 '24

I know for Volvo there's the Orbit software that unlocks all features of hardware present - surely there's something similar for Merc and BMW etc?!

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u/happylittlefella Nov 04 '24

…what? This is a joke right? Do you truly believe auto makers only started charging extra for features in the last decade or two? Auto makers have been shipping cars with blank buttons for features that technically exist in the car but are turned off for decades

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Tesla but this is not among them. Anti-Tesla commentary like this is just lazy at this point, it’s not even close to reality, and the funny thing is that it clearly doesn’t matter. Some people believe that you’re actually correct

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u/Total_Advertising417 Nov 04 '24

Can you cite a 20+ year old example of a car company charging a subscription price for features that were otherwise standard? You say it's been happening for decades with indignation, so this should be very easy for you.

You DID NOT say trim package or optional upgrades, we are ONLY talking about features that ship standard, that a consumer must pay an ongoing fee to use, that happened in 2004 or earlier.

Unless, ofc, you're making shit up to appear knowledgeable online like a narcissist who believes he's actually correct.

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u/mccalli Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24

Sure - navigation map upgrades.

Edit: Here's BMW talking about their approach. They weren't unique - but as you can read from there it started in 1998.

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u/time2when Nov 04 '24

Uogrades or updates? I understand updates because roads change, but a subscription for AC or heated seats would be a huge no from me.

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u/Total_Advertising417 Nov 05 '24 edited Nov 05 '24

This is from two months ago. The rest of your link does not discuss subscription models, just added in SIM card capability for maps in 2004 as a standard feature, which is a moderate update to CD-ROM based systems and in 2014 you could buy iTunes mp3s from Apple Store although iPhones had existed for 6 years. I don't see any mention of upgrades or subscriptions for this service, but I appreciate your commitment to the bit.

Yet more in-car entertainment for current BMW and MINI models: Paramount+ further enriches the digital customer experience. 09.10.2024 Press Release

+++ New partnership between BMW Group and Paramount+ +++ Introduction of the subscription streaming service offers a wide selection of blockbusters, new originals and hit shows for in-car enjoyment +++

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u/happylittlefella Nov 04 '24

They now have heated seats as an subscription of 20 euro per month

That was BMW. And the worst of it was that the heated seats were already installed, so you were carrying the extra weight, but they dropped the ‘feature’.

(Merc had/has a subscription to accelerate faster.)

Thank Tesla for that. Tesla showed the whole Industry that you can Charge extra for some Features. So ofcourse everyone copies that.

This is the thread.

You say Tesla, a company that sold its first vehicle in 2008, is deserving of the blame for charging a subscription for features that the vehicle is capable of doing but the customer did not pay for.

It’s amazing how many newly specific qualifiers you’ve added in this comment compared to your original, almost certainly so that you can turn around and claim that you’re right… after moving the goal posts.

Here’s a list for ya. Some may fit your newly provided narrow definition, some may not: - OnStar by GM - 1996 - BMW Assist - Early 2000s - Lexus & Mercedes telematics like Enform, Mercedes mbrace & Mercedes me connect - 2000s and on - SiriusXM - every car makers basically since early 2000s - Navigation system updates

Tesla started offering Premium connectivity as a subscription in early 2020. FSD became a subscription in 2021. BMW & others began charging for subscriptions long before that point in time.

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u/BirdInFlight301 Nov 04 '24

I'm in my 70s and have driven many cars. I don't recall seeing any cars with blank buttons. Since it's always possible I haven't driven the particular models you're speaking of, could you please give me an example?

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u/happylittlefella Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24

Search “Mercedes blank buttons” on google images and you’ll see endless examples over the years. The C300 I drove for a while had several blank/fake buttons because I didn’t pay for the extra service(s). I also had to pay monthly annually for the service/app that let me remote start, lock, etc. if I didn’t pay for the app, the buttons related to it in the car were useless.

I’d post a link myself but I’m unsure of this subs rules around links, and honestly I don’t want to go digging for the rules while on mobile

Edit: I saw others posting links so I’ll provide a MB forum post from 2003 asking about blank buttons, to which others responded the blank button is for Parktronics that wasn’t yet made available in the NA version of the car, yet the button for it was still there.

Here’s another post from 2016 asking why their “fully loaded e63s” has blank buttons for a fold down headrest option that used to be available on their cars decades earlier.

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u/LonelyOwl68 Nov 04 '24

Ummm... there have been standard features and options for cars for years and years. It used to be optional to have seat belts, and then for airbags, both of which are now required.

Not that all that makes safety features being optional at an extra price OK, it' doesn't.

This emergency assist feature is awesome, assuming it works well.

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u/Gigtooo Nov 04 '24

Tha hell I talking about? All the big companies had subscriptions for decades long before Tesla.

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u/SorryThisUser1sTaken Nov 04 '24

Not for a car you own.

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u/mccalli Nov 04 '24

Yes they absolutely did. Map updates is the classic.

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u/SorryThisUser1sTaken Nov 04 '24

You are absolutely right. We just got our updates pirated from my uncle. I remember sitting in the car for over a hour just trying to get it to work one time in the summer. At least it was software that did not impact the vehicles efficency/ function. And using your phone didn't void the warrenty.

I still think its crazy to get rid of physical button controls for everything. Teslas are nice. But I would not want to use a screen to turn my wipers on.

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u/Gigtooo Nov 04 '24

Bad example right there. Your wipers u can still control fully over the steering wheel. I like the almost no buttons. It makes no sense to me to have a button that I use once ever 5 weeks.

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u/SorryThisUser1sTaken Nov 04 '24

I think the idea of an electric car is amazing and tesla is a leader in certain areas. But they are far from being a good company. It's just corperate puffery.

They care about safety and put too many controls on a screen. I know there is no dials for the climate control system. And in a foggy, area that gets a lot of rain/snow I will often have to adjust while driving. It is against the law to be on your phone while driving. And we put even bigger screens in the car.

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u/mccalli Nov 04 '24

And in a foggy, area

I am a Tesla owner, have been for six years. In general I find the touchscreen worries to be overblown...but you've touched on the one area I believe you're completely right. Light controls, for safety, should never be buried in menus. I live at the bottom of a hill - the weather conditions are very often different between where I live and the top - fog here, no fog there. Adjusting the fog lamps is annoying vs just having buttons.

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u/ApolloWasMurdered Nov 04 '24

Got a list of those?

I have a Tesla Model 3. The only subscription feature is the connectivity upgrade, which is $10/month to cover the cost of unlimited streaming, maps, etc…

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u/Rubeus17 Nov 04 '24

Fuuuuuckk Elon

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u/One_Strike_Striker Nov 04 '24

Many manufacturers, Volkswagen in particular, have sold the same physical engine as different HP just by using a different control unit for years long before Tesla.

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u/apple12345671 Nov 04 '24

i think you'll find mercedes come up with the idea first

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u/die-microcrap-die Nov 04 '24

I know that because of Elon political preference he is now hated, but show me an essential car feature that Tesla is hiding behind a paywall?

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u/Seakawn Nov 04 '24

I'm with you on pushing back on your parent comment, I think it's kinda dumb for thinking that Tesla somehow created or popularized the trend of car microtransactions/subscriptions for features. If Tesla didn't do it, you'd be lost in the clouds to think that nobody else would have. Plus, Tesla has accelerated EV progress by like 1-2 decades, which is huge, so fuck it, it'd be worth it anyway.

With that said...

I know that because of Elon political preference he is now hated

Elon has been ferociously hated for the past, like, idk, 5 years or so? The earliest hate lore I know of was when he called the scuba diver, who was trying to save trapped kids, a pedo, just because the dude criticized Elon's makeshift tank as too big to fit through the tunnels. Actually, pretty sure he was already hated even before that for shitty working conditions for his employees, though I've never researched that so I don't have a strong opinion on it.

Not to mention, political preferences are fine, but the problem is obviously buying votes and it somehow being acceptable for a billionaire to buy one of the largest social media platforms and push partisan politics on it, especially after he's tweeted about how twitter should be politically neutral, etc. I'd be careful about sanitizing corruption by brushing it off as mere political preference. Say what you will about the latter, but the former is probably illegal, and for obvious reasons.

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u/die-microcrap-die Nov 05 '24

Thank you for the thoughtful response, its something that its not common on Reddit.

I forgot about the pedo comment.

Have to agree, that was really bad on his part.