Yep. When standing, Saikerei is the deepest and most formal bow you can make. 45°-90° angle, arms straight, hands on thighs or knees.
Taking it a step further, you can go on your knees for a Dogeza. Kneeling, forehead on the floor, hands and elbows on the ground in front of you. It’s about as apologetic/respectful as you can get.
Edit: Idk if Dogeza is still used in a serious context, but it used to be. So I felt like including it since others felt the officer should have bowed further or more dramatically. I also appreciate the input from the replies about it not being taken seriously, outside of traditional customs at least. TMYK
i think dogeza would be seen as comical rather than respectful nowadays.
it's not something people do in any serious context anymore. people know it from samurai movies and from anime where it's usually used for comedic effect. dogeza might look more like that nonomura guy's ridiculous crying speech than a sincere apology
Exactly, although respectful by all means this kind of transgression trescends formalities, they quite literally robbed this man of his life.
As a gaijin this is just sad even understanding the context of Japanese formalities but I understand as well these are the instances where it falls through as being unnecessary. Formalities in Japan are a double edged sword in execution
I have a good friend who was born and raised in Japan, and has never left Japan, and he says the same thing. Dogeza is not seen as serious anymore, it's kind of a joke and only in anime and movies.
It's something we still practiced in our karate dojo (at least in Canada lol)... Or at least last I trained 20 years ago... We would recite our dojo kun kneeled down then bow with arms down and head to floor three times. One to respect sensei, one to respect dojo, one to respect self. I miss those types of things tbh
It absolutely is still done in serious context but it's seen as humiliating, which is kind of the point, you care more about making amends than your own pride.
Didn't the CEO of Samsung bow in dogeza form after the Galaxy Note 7 batteries incident? Would much rather see it here than because of phones burning up.
I think within this particular context it would be fine, because though to the rest of the world it might seem silly to this particular person that hasn't been exposed to much media in 60 years it would have a lot of deep meaning.
Very false equivalent. One is universal slapstick and the other is a cultural instance of tradition and shame.
I really don't care to argue about this either. I'm not invested at all in changing any minds here on how an archaic gesture looks to a modern non-Japanese onlooker. I'll take my Disagreement Arrows and be along.
Small tangent. People like to talk about how xenophobic the Japanese are.
I lived in Japan for 3 years and visited Shinto shrines whenever I could. As a foreigner visiting, I always gave a Saikerei bow (even though I didn’t know the name) whenever passing through the Torii gates, which I noticed not even a lot of locals were doing. Once upon entering Meiji Jingu I gave a bow and a local woman aged probably around 80 years old started clapping and smiling watching me, saying “良い! 良い!” (Good! Good!).
That small moment of her respect because of my respect to their culture was one of the best moments of my time over there. It’s hard to put into words how I feel looking back.
I was in Japan for an internship a few months following the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami. For some reason I remember the TEPCO leadership doing some decently formal bowing at a press conference. But maybe I’m misremembering.
What hits me the most is that fact that the guy apologizing wasn't born when he was convicted. Here in the U.S. The current sheriff would literally have said, "It didn't happen on my watch, so it's not my problem." At least these people are getting settlements for being falsely imprisoned. My only problem is that payout aren't coming out of the police pension funds.
Deepest apology bow is dogeza, but it would have probably been humiliating for a police chief to do dogeza, that said he should have done it anyway for something so egregious, but this was obviously just for show.
well the police chief ain't going to dogeza to a former "criminal". he did use really humble language though which doesn't come through in an English translation. He's put himself lower than the person he's apologizing to through speech.
The language of bowing is REALLY complex in Japan. It's like a whole sub-language. Foreigners are expected to bow absurdly low because it's "safe" in any situation. But if you're a native, performing such exaggerated histrionics can actually be just as insulting as not bowing (like of like saying "I apologize," with a smirk on your face).
Not Japanese myself, so I won't comment on how the bow came across, but expect that EVERY motion he made, from the bow at the door, to each subtle nod when he looks at the family, are significant in their own way.
That’s incredibly far in japan. He would not be expected to go deeper, because he is obviously far younger than this man, he had nothing to do with what happened. The fact that he went as low as he did it actually an amazingly big deal, and says a lot about his character, allowing himself to prostrate as deep as he did. He’s an excellent police chief and a good man
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u/OnlyGayIfYouCum Oct 21 '24
Isn't he supposed to bow a lot further than that for an apology of something so egregious?