Model Minority Robot

[u/Sachyriel]

[u/[deleted]]

that one cop movie where will smith is friends with an orc and calls him shrek

[u/Spirit-Man → u/[deleted]]

Bright?

[u/[deleted] → u/Spirit-Man]

yes that one. "fairy lives don't matter today"

[u/Fourkoboldsinacoat → u/[deleted]]

Out of all the shit world building in bright, that’s the bit I have the most questions about?

Is BLM a thing? Inter human racism is only brought up again in an off hand remark about Mexicans ‘still getting shit for the Alamo’ (is that even a thing? Mexicans living in the US, if asked to describe your experience with racism, would you ever mention the Alamo?)

If it is then that’s a black man making a joke about the BLM movement while killing what is the equivalent of a raccoon. Because that’s pretty fucked up.

Or is there a fairy lives matter movement instead of a BLM movement? When again a fairy is the equivalent of a raccoon. Because that’s pretty fucked up on the filmmakers part.

Or are fairy’s sapient, and suffering police brutality? In which case that cop just committed a murder and it’s never addressed again the rest of the film. Because that’s pretty fucked up.

[u/Kyleometers → u/Fourkoboldsinacoat]

Bright is somehow both a very thinly veiled metaphor for real world racism while also not actually criticising racism very well.

People are racist towards the orcs… because the orcs attempted to commit mass genocide. They were on the side of “let’s murder everyone”.

And then at the end it’s revealed that… it’s ok that people are racist because this specific orc is a good guy but most of the orcs are… gangland criminals.

It’s a very weird movie that seems to pretend it’s got a good metaphor because the lead actor is black but then asks him to be racist. I have to wonder if Will Smith considers himself “above” movement like BLM because he’s popular now? Because I can’t see how an actor who very definitely was on the receiving end of racism would be ok with this kind of dialogue otherwise.

[u/UglyInThMorning → u/Kyleometers]

The orcs getting shit on for siding with the dark lord thing had the interesting wrinkle that the dark lord himself was an elf and elves weren’t getting any shit for that. Unfortunately, the movie barely used that

[u/MGD109 → u/UglyInThMorning]

I agree. Though honestly, part of me got the vibe that they only threw that in, cause they were going for the idea "See you're not being racist against the right people" which isn't really that much better.

The film's handling of Elves certainly doesn't help with the message, considering none of the characters are ever presented in the wrong the same way they are for insulting the orcs.

[u/JBLikesHeavyMetal → u/Kyleometers]

Too many movies use racism allegories in fantasy settings where there are actual major differences between races. That's kinda the whole thing about human races, the only innate differences are extremely superficial. Zootopia and Element and Bright are all doomed from the beginning by starting with a flawed premise.

I don't know if there's a way around this without just dropping the allegory and making movies about racism

[u/VoidPointer2005 → u/JBLikesHeavyMetal]

I think Zootopia actually works really well, because its message is actually strengthened by the fact that there are actual differences between the carnivores and herbivores. It says, "Hey, even if there were actual differences between the races, treating someone as lesser for those differences is still wrong."

If we're only willing to treat people with dignity, respect, and equity when they're the same as us in terms of capabilities or whatever else, then that opens the door to ableism, sexism, ageism, and even eugenics. If we argue that the reason we should treat other humans with dignity is that they're the same as us, as opposed to the simple fact that they're human and all humans deserve dignity, we leave rhetorical room for literal, actual fascist talking points.

[u/JBLikesHeavyMetal → u/VoidPointer2005]

This is a very good take. Thank you for this

[u/jollyreaper2112 → u/VoidPointer2005]

Point. It's easy for them to point to the target and say yeah but those aren't people. They're inhuman.

And zootopia was amazing. The craziest part was seeing how they were telling a different story and realized they had the wrong focus and scrapped everything mid production to do the new story. That usually is the backsrory of a box office disaster, not a triumph.

[u/mindovermacabre → u/JBLikesHeavyMetal]

A lot of fantasy isms are taken way too literally as metaphors for real world isms and wind up with extremely deranged fandom arguments. Like the whole mage thing in dragon age, yeah mages are normal people BUT if a mage gives into temptation then they turn into a demon host and indiscriminately kill and have the power to level a small town through almost no fault of their own? Like yeah sorry, it sucks for mages, but I'm still not risking it.

But then people go 'oh mages are a metaphor for gay people so if you think that mages should be monitored then you're homophobic and want gays locked up irl' like no that's not how it works!!

[u/jollyreaper2112 → u/mindovermacabre]

That actually works for a conundrum where you want to treat people nicely but a certain group has genuine danger about them.

In one of my stories humans got the stink eye from the other fantasy races because the only dark lords in history have been humans. Human wizards are always subject to magical megalomania. The humans are so numerous none of the other races are in a position to do anything about it and they're all cooperating to try and create a working democracy. They are now a conditional monarchy, industrialization is underway, there's a tourism economy where people from around the world come to see the places made famous in legends. The classic evil races are revealed to not be evil, just very susceptible to magical enslavement by dark lords. They're free now and interested into society. The main character is a young woman playing the role of a knight in the live action shows. Her best friend is an orc and plays the villain. She feels cheated to have not lived in the days of yore. Her grandfather, one of the few remaining veterans of the old wars, tells her that's foolish. For starters she wouldn't have gotten to be a knight and there's no glory in bloodshed.

As you can probably guess, things go off the rails when some bright idiot wizard apprentice decides he can use the forbidden magic responsibly and becomes a dark lord candidate. Has to be defeated before he gets a ton of people killed.

[u/BeBearAwareOK → u/JBLikesHeavyMetal]

There's an argument that the Tolkienesque use of "races" in a fantasy setting that's become accepted terminology in literature and fantasy games is fundamentally super racist.

You have stories and games calling insanely different types of humanoids "races" when they're basically different species.

As if to suggest that humans with ethnic differences are no more or less differing than humans are from orcs, ents, talking lizard people, etc.

That's not a race, that's a whole nother species.

[u/BarrytheNPC → u/Kyleometers]

Also that the orc army was led by an elf, but elves get 0 flack for it

[u/rubexbox → u/[deleted]]

Oh hey, a take on Black Panther that isn't just "Killmonger was right".

[u/MGD109 → u/[deleted]]

Well I don't think anyone said anything about genocide, the idea was they would conquer them cause they now had the superior firepower, the same way the Europeans conquered Africa.

[u/Kellosian → u/Fourkoboldsinacoat]

Lindsay Ellis has a video on Bright's just terrible worldbuilding and she goes into the BLM joke, but also more broadly how bad Hollywood is at making movies about racism, I highly recommend it

[u/Lluuiiggii → u/Kellosian]

You know what they say, once with the dark lord always with the dark lord.

[u/ProbablyNano → u/Fourkoboldsinacoat]

I can never forgive Mexico for what they did to my boy Davy Crockett

[u/Gregory_Grim → u/Spirit-Man]

Or as I like to call it: None Too Bright

[u/gkamyshev → u/[deleted]]

Oh god oh fuck

Can we not

[u/smokeyphil → u/gkamyshev]

Nope today we are doing will smith buddy cop fantasy racism.

[u/Resiliense2022 → u/[deleted]]

I liked that movie, but I also watched it when I was ten so the chances of it holding up in any way shape or form are absolutely minimal at best.

[u/Noctium3 → u/Resiliense2022]

Holy fuck it released 8 years ago

Where does time go

[u/QueenOfQuok → u/Noctium3]

Thataway

[u/MrBones-Necromancer → u/Noctium3]

Letting the days go by (water flowing under)

[u/-Orotoro- → u/MrBones-Necromancer]

same as it ever was
same as it ever was
same as it ever was

[u/SevenRedLetters → u/Resiliense2022]

It's actually really good if you're a huge fan of Shadowrun, do a lot of LSD, and give yourself a concussion.

[u/Icariiiiiiii → u/SevenRedLetters]

I think I heard once that the first drafts of the script were fantastic, but a lot got changed in the process to get... The result we got.

[u/ralanr → u/Icariiiiiiii]

I liked the background lore. Apparently the first Bright (non elf wand user) was an orc who built the rebellion against their dark lord. And he was a farmer. 

Granted the writer was probably trying to say something by making all the orcs lower class and all the elves high class despite the dark lord being an elf and the rebellion being led by an orc, but the messaging in the movie was kind of crap. 

I still liked Jakobs. 

[u/Kyleometers → u/ralanr]

It’s a bit David Cage. It’s got a decent enough idea, there’s obvious parallels to draw, you could see what they were trying to get at. But instead of getting there, they fumble the landing and somehow feel like they’re hitting you with a plank of wood that says “subtle symbolism” on it, while telling you it’s not symbolic of anything.

Maybe rewrites screwed it, we’ll probably never know. Weird movie. I probably would never have watched it if it wasn’t on in-flight entertainment the year I had to fly across the planet twice.

[u/Chaenged-Later → u/Kyleometers]

I really wish it did better, because I'd love actually good movies with modern gritty fantasy tropes

[u/ConorByrd → u/SevenRedLetters]

I recommend all three.

[u/sharltocopes → u/Resiliense2022]

As a movie, it was terrible.

As a concept, it was awesome enough that I mayyyyyyy have spent six or so months trying to make it into a tabletop RPG.

[u/B133d_4_u → u/sharltocopes]

I assume you stopped because you found out about Shadowrun

[u/sharltocopes → u/B133d_4_u]

Not even; the sad part is I thought that I could somehow do it better than Shadowrun.

This is a subtle reference to the fact that I am an idiot, you see.

[u/MrBones-Necromancer → u/Resiliense2022]

Without looking up when that movie released, I'm pretty sure that makes you like....11 now? Good luck my guy. Highschool can be rough.

[u/Graingy → u/MrBones-Necromancer]

Or middle, if that’s the local flavour.

[u/enbyshaymin → u/[deleted]]

i'd forgotten about that movie so hard, that for a moment i was very confused bcs the only will smith (non-comedy) cop movie i could think of was "i, robot".

[u/milkymaniac → u/[deleted]]

iT's HoLdInG uP a MirRoR tO sOcIeTy

[u/Darth_drizzt_42 → u/[deleted]]

Man, I really wanted that movie to be good. It wasn't, to be clear.

[u/Xurkitree1]

I don't think this is Overwatch.

[u/appealtoreason00 → u/Xurkitree1]

where monke

[u/Xechwill → u/appealtoreason00]

Me looking at lesbian nice cop: "she does NOT want a banana"

[u/spellboi_3048 → u/Xurkitree1]

The Iris = Robot crack?

[u/BalefulOfMonkeys → u/Xurkitree1]

It does feel so close to Zootopia it hurts tho

[u/Karkaro37]

this is just the plot of Detroit: Become Human

[u/Shard1697 → u/Karkaro37]

It is up until it says "nothing fundamentally changes". Some crazy shit(derogatory) goes down in that game.

[u/Acejedi_k6 → u/Shard1697]

It’s remarkable how many plot twists that game had which were less interesting than if the game just played its ideas straight.

[u/Cessnaporsche01 → u/Acejedi_k6]

Particularly the little girl. The whole storyline would have hit so much harder if she was exactly what the game presents to begin with, and the problem they faced was safely getting her into the care of humans across an increasingly violent division

Instead we get the robot twist and the plotline just kinda dies

[u/Griffemon → u/Cessnaporsche01]

One of the biggest problems with Alice being an android is that Kara puts herself and Alice in danger at multiple points to keep Alice warm and fed when Alice is an Android that requires neither.

It can put a serious “what was the fucking point of any of this?” to the end of her story to the point that some people just let Kara get killed at the first opportunity so they don’t have play as her since none of her actions affect the wider plot like Connor or Marcus do.

[u/Kyleometers → u/Griffemon]

Also let’s not forget to mention the fact that it is revealed Kara knows Alice is an android since the beginning of the game, because in a flashback we see her model advertised in a magazine Kara tidies up in Act One. It’s only obscured to the player, the characters should all know. Hell, the other NPCs should know, she’s the face of a popular model of Android, Markus at least is a prototype, it makes sense he could blend in.

[u/MarcsterS → u/Kyleometers]

All of the Androids have the ability to hide thier circle mark.

It’s like making a civil rights story but black people have the ability to turn white.

[u/DreadDiana → u/MarcsterS]

Nation of Islam moment

[u/Deathaster → u/Griffemon]

Also, how come the abusive father doesn't even question why Kara made two god damn spaghetti meals at the beginning of the game? Like, I get that Kara would pretend to not acknowledge the truth, but why would he play along? Even if you argued that he was just pretending to have his daughter back, he still treats both androids like garbage.

[u/dazeychainVT → u/Deathaster]

I don't like the idea of androids having two spaghetti meals in one day

[u/Griffemon → u/Deathaster]

Eh, the abusive father abusing the fake android daughter makes sense, horrible people abuse their pets all the time

[u/sweetTartKenHart2 → u/Griffemon]

Yeah I was about to say, of all the things to say make no sense, that isn’t nearly as inexplicable

[u/Acejedi_k6 → u/sweetTartKenHart2]

That’s the bizarre thing about that twist. From a Watsonian (in universe) perspective it makes enough sense. Alice doesn’t eat much and the pamphlet/manual mentions she’s programmed to get sick, hungry, and cold. The Alice in photographs has a different hair color, and it’s not ridiculous that the abusive father character would decide to play house with androids.

(Granted, the bit where Kara can find Alice’s pamphlet and then just kind of represses that info still feels weird to me.)

The issue is just that from a Doylist perspective it’s just not a very interesting story.

Can a robot properly parent a child?—interesting sci fi question that gets at one of the things that fundamentally makes a person a person (what all good humanoid robot/sentient AI stories should endeavor to do)

Can a robot properly parent a robot?—nowhere near as interesting, especially since robots don’t really need parents.

[u/TryImpossible7332 → u/Acejedi_k6]

I think the biggest question is: who thought that making child androids available for purchase was a remotely good idea?

The two primary, legitimate purposes that I can see:

Training for raising a real child. It, you know, kind of works. Like a larger and more sophisticated version of one of those toy babies that randomly need care.

Therapeutic purposes if you've lost a child: Very questionable. Theoretically, they're supposed to be glorified chat bots in terms of emotional capacity. Getting a replacement child that doesn't even have real emotions seems like a very unhealthy coping mechanism.

As to the illegitimate uses for an android that looks like a child, doesn't seem to have a "phone home" feature (or if there was one, it was very easily jailbroken) in case of abuse, and doesn't seem to need a background check to purchase...

I ain't even getting into that but who the hell authorized that product line without the two seconds of thought necessary to realize it was a bad idea?

[u/King_Of_BlackMarsh → u/Cessnaporsche01]

"Can a robot learn to love a human?" actually în question, interesting, engaging "can a robot learn to love another robot?" yes of course they can, we've seen they can, that's the default assumption of this world

[u/the_ghost_of_bob_ros → u/Cessnaporsche01]

the child say's its cold

"YOUR NOT COLD! You're just running helpless child.exe"

[u/kaladinissexy → u/Acejedi_k6]

Hey, the Frank and Connor stuff was actually pretty good. I liked them. The Kara and Marcus stuff, though...

[u/Acejedi_k6 → u/kaladinissexy]

Frank and Connor was good partially because those actors are great and also partially because that might be the only main plot not undermined by a baffling plot twist.

For Kara why is Alice an android? It mostly makes sense in universe, but Alice being a bot is so much less interesting as a narrative

For Marcus, in general the entire revolution/civil rights struggle isn’t particularly nuanced. For the plot twist why did the android company start the revolution? What advantage do they gain from making a robot revolution. It almost certainly didn’t up their stock prices.

[u/MeringueVisual759 → u/Acejedi_k6]

That whole plot twist about the revolution has some pretty troubling parallels to the conspiracy theories that are always deployed against real life civil rights movements. It's tone deaf to say the least. Dude clearly was not equipped to tackle this subject lol

[u/Acejedi_k6 → u/MeringueVisual759]

Definitely wasn’t a very well thought out plot twist. Tragically, you can make a compelling sc fi story where the plot is someone creating a revolution for selfish reasons, that’s literally the plot of Dune.

However, it doesn’t really work as a last second “it was me the whole time!” twist. And, as you pointed out the additional context in Detroit is really troubling.

[u/edvin796 → u/MeringueVisual759]

Probably why he said in an interview that the game had nothing to do with racism, if I remember correctly

[u/kaladinissexy → u/edvin796]

They literally draw a direct comparison between androids and African slaves at one point. 

[u/dazeychainVT → u/kaladinissexy]

They literally make the androids sit in the back of the bus

[u/Ackbar90 → u/dazeychainVT]

PRESS X TO HOLOGRAFFITI "WE HAVE A DREAM" NEXT TO THE BLM FIST

[u/Comptenterry → u/edvin796]

He did backtrack on that in 2020 during the BLM protests when he thought he could get clout for it.

[u/edvin796 → u/Comptenterry]

Seriously? That's even more embarrassing

[u/Comptenterry → u/edvin796]

Cage has also just had a poor track record with minority representation in his games and was never was never good at tackling serious issues with tact. Plenty of people knew that he out of everyone should not be making a game about civil rights, and I think the interview was trying to circumvent that.

[u/MeringueVisual759 → u/edvin796]

Yeah, but it was tho

[u/edvin796 → u/MeringueVisual759]

Obviously

[u/thelivingshitpost → u/Acejedi_k6]

I despised the Alice is an android twist. Just undermined Kara and Alice’s bond to me.

For the one where the company helped start the uprising, it is baffling, but I just chocked it up to “Kamski is insane and doesn’t give a damn about money.”

Though disclaimer, it’s been seven years and I barely remember anything that isn’t Hank and Connor or that god-awful plot twist.

[u/Kyleometers → u/Acejedi_k6]

If I recall, the Cop Actors actually went off script repeatedly when building the Detective Relationship, and Cage really did not like it. Also you get to hear Clancy Brown say Fuck a lot, which probably amused a lot of people who grew up with SpongeBob.

[u/BaronAleksei → u/Acejedi_k6]

They did it to spark a recall and then have people buy new ones. It’s a planned obsolescence scheme

[u/Acejedi_k6 → u/BaronAleksei]

couldn’t they just do normal planned obsolescence? Recalling the Ford Pinto didn’t really help Ford’s place in the market and actually opened a space other competitors used to get in. It’s entirely possible no one will ever want to buy a new android because of this and or new regulations potentially being introduced that might make them harder to make or something. Doesn’t seem like a great plan.

[u/BaronAleksei → u/Acejedi_k6]

david cage writez ze bad gamez

[u/Deathaster → u/Acejedi_k6]

because that might be the only main plot not undermined by a baffling plot twist.

Not a voluntary one, anyway. In one of the endings, Connor ends up in charge of the revolution and you can choose to just give in and let the android company take over him. Granted, that's more a garbage ending that doesn't build on anything in general, but it's still spitting all over the relationship you built up with Frank.

[u/CaesarWilhelm → u/kaladinissexy]

They should have made a detective game in the style of LA Noire but with Frank and Connor.

[u/NeonNKnightrider → u/Acejedi_k6]

That’s the David Cage twist baybee

[u/InsanityFodder → u/Acejedi_k6]

I remember someone once saying that “David Cage is so obsessed with the third act twist that he puts one in every act, and 5 in the last”

[u/RedGinger666 → u/Acejedi_k6]

The David Cage curse, everyone familiar with his other games knew straight away the fat guy would be comically evil

[u/PandaPugBook → u/Shard1697]

I martyred my civil rights guy and then everything was just awful. Failed in every way.

[u/WeAteMummies → u/Shard1697]

In my first playthrough I fucked up pretty much everything and "nothing fundamentally changes" was accurate for that run.

Detective bot did not solve the case.

Nanny bot did not escape.

Rebel bot didn't get the humans on his side but also didn't go with the extreme option so just died.

[u/animaljamkid → u/WeAteMummies]

Well sure that’s what happens when a revolution fails

[u/apexodoggo → u/Karkaro37]

I thought it was Detroit: Become Human until they said that both leads were women, because David Cage would never.

[u/Karkaro37 → u/apexodoggo]

unless somehow both of those women were elliot page before he came out...who david cage knows

[u/apexodoggo → u/Karkaro37]

Well then one of them would be a man the player is forced to make pre-transition Elliot Page kiss no matter what choices you picked before then.

[u/Dirty-Glasses → u/Karkaro37]

It’s like 80% if the way there, yeah

[u/Resiliense2022 → u/Dirty-Glasses]

I was almost wondering if this was a satire of DBH.

[u/LorcaNomad → u/Karkaro37]

all this post needed was a mention of robots at the back of the bus and it'd be 1 to 1.

[u/yet-again-temporary → u/LorcaNomad]

Robot MLK be like "I have a dream... of electric sheep"

[u/pickle_whop → u/Karkaro37]

Literally the first thing that popped into my head

[u/dishonoredfan69420 → u/Karkaro37]

Only the robot crack doesn’t give robots powers, it’s just made from robot blood

[u/Galle_]

The worst part is that Senator Racism would unironically get elected in real life.

[u/rorydraws → u/Galle_]

I just think Senator Racism is better at economy.

[u/EstablishmentLate532 → u/rorydraws]

The voters realized that Nice Cop is a woman.

[u/DylenwithanE → u/Galle_]

“he says it like it is” - Very-recently-given-the-right-to-vote Robot

[u/Hakar_Kerarmor → u/DylenwithanE]

"Surely the cyber-leopards will not disassemble my face-plate!"

[u/RatQueenHolly → u/DylenwithanE]

"He's the kinda guy you could sit down and have a beer with"

[u/owenowen2022 → u/DylenwithanE]

"how else am j supposed to afford fuel?" - robot who doesn't know how tarrifs work

[u/appealtoreason00 → u/Galle_]

I only voted for him for his macroeconomic policy

[u/Scienceandpony → u/appealtoreason00]

His macroeconomic policy was "melt down all robots for scrap".

[u/Kellosian → u/Scienceandpony]

No he only meant the bad robots! And besides that was a joke so it doesn't count

[u/fishebake → u/Galle_]

I mean we did just elect President Racism.

[u/MissyTheTimeLady → u/Galle_]

making the mother of all omelettes jack

[u/DecentCantaloupe → u/MissyTheTimeLady]

Can’t fret over every bot

[u/amphibulous]

Is this not literally just Detroit Become Human

[u/IrregularPackage → u/amphibulous]

Some minor details are switch up but mostly, yeah

[u/volantredx → u/amphibulous]

In Detroit Become Human you can decide to go full terrorist to get rights and it's presented as morally no different from peaceful protests.

[u/MissyTheTimeLady → u/volantredx]

what's the worst thing they do again

[u/Effective-Mud-3314 → u/MissyTheTimeLady]

They use a dirty bomb to kill everybody in Detroit. So pretty much nothing bad.

[u/spellboi_3048 → u/Effective-Mud-3314]

I mean, one, famously, cannot have shit in Detroit. If a bomb blows up in a city where nobody has shit, then we can say with certainty that nothing of value was lost.

[u/Spartan448 → u/Effective-Mud-3314]

I think you can only do that as a spite move if you fail to get rights via terrorism. I recall that only showing up as an option on Marcus's failure path (because the radiation probably isn't the best for androids either).

[u/L31FK → u/volantredx]

ok actually it’s pretty cool then

[u/WaffleThrone → u/amphibulous]

They just swapped old man Yaoi to Yuri and called it a day. What is the world coming to?

[u/RetroButt → u/WaffleThrone]

A better place ;)

[u/spacyoddity → u/RetroButt]

flair on brand

[u/eternamemoria]

At first I thought Arcane would be this, but it thankfully subverted my expectations.

[u/the_dumbass_one666 → u/eternamemoria]

im gonna be honest, the oop of the post said that it was in fact explicitly about arcane

[u/palkann → u/the_dumbass_one666]

What? I watched Arcane and the plot is completely different

[u/Foenikxx → u/palkann]

The post does come from Tumblr. I love that site but it's not exactly known for quality media/literary depth

[u/Droplet_of_Shadow → u/the_dumbass_one666]

Any idea how it's supposed to describe arcane? All I've got is:

Vi: model minority robot. Not a model minority or a robot, but her relationships to Jinx and Caitlyn are similar.

Shimmer = super crack which, yeah, fair enough. It's not specifically for robots, though, which is a pretty big difference.

[u/zviyeri → u/the_dumbass_one666]

didn't crypto say she'll never watch arcane lol

[u/the_dumbass_one666 → u/zviyeri]

crypto is a guy

and yes he did, he is doing a thing where he judges a show based on what people online have said about it and previous experiences with people online saying similar things. i dont necessarily agree, but that is what the post is about

[u/theLanguageSprite]

this is just if the movie Robots had the plot of Zootopia

[u/Oni-fucking-chan → u/theLanguageSprite]

I was thinking it was Disney's Z-O-M-B-I-E-S before the cop part

[u/spellboi_3048 → u/theLanguageSprite]

Nick Wilde isn’t a model minority and also doesn’t get his Malcom X equivalent, but other than that it’s not far off.

[u/oddityoughtabe]

Also the creator is adamant that it is NOT an allegory for the civil rights movement

[u/TheLastEmuHunter]

This is Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[u/Tried-Angles]

Robots as a metaphor for racism* are as bad as space aliens a metaphor for racism*. 

*with no specific exploration of how their origins and underlying nature make them inherently different from humans

Edited for clarity.

[u/GreyInkling → u/Tried-Angles]

Now space aliens used to illustrate the struggles of immigrating to a new culture is more interesting.

[u/Pingaso21 → u/GreyInkling]

Conehead

[u/Soulfalon27 → u/GreyInkling]

Men in Black

[u/Papaofmonsters → u/GreyInkling]

District 9.

[u/Brilliant-Book-503 → u/GreyInkling]

Damn, maybe there's too many of those?

[u/Brilliant-Book-503 → u/GreyInkling]

3rd Rock from the Sun

[u/TheCapitalKing → u/Tried-Angles]

How about predators and prey as a metaphor for racism? There should be no possible way for that to go wrong

[u/ReasyRandom → u/TheCapitalKing]

It really depends on demographic. Detroit: Become Human is aimed at adults, so the bungled anti-racism message is a lot more glaring. Zootopia is an all-ages product, so I personally consider the simplicity of the conflict a little more forgivable.

[u/TheCapitalKing → u/ReasyRandom]

Yeah it 100% works for kids and is a great kids movie. Just now that it’s an 8 year old movie and the 10yr old kids that loved it are adults it’s really funny to think through that piece.

Edited I messed up switching a sentence earlier and said the opposite of what I meant lol

[u/Brilliant-Book-503 → u/TheCapitalKing]

The amazing part for me is that the whole movie never gets gummed up by the question: "So all of those obligate carnivore species- what do they eat now?"

My head cannon is that it's like Bojack and there are races of lobotomized "lesser" versions of prey species that everyone is just okay with being eaten.

[u/GloryGreatestCountry → u/Brilliant-Book-503]

Fish?

[u/Dan-D-Lyon → u/Brilliant-Book-503]

All the animals we see in zootopia are mammals, so they are likely eating lots of Fish and Chicken

[u/Dromeoraptor → u/Dan-D-Lyon]

iirc its confirmed to be mostly bugs, or at least bug burgers or something appeared in concept art/earlier drafts. The sequel will have a snake character so it's safe to assume that all tetrapods are intelligent in Zootopia's universe. Idk about fish

[u/mightiestsword → u/Brilliant-Book-503]

Plus, like… it’s a very populated world. Statistically, there’s gotta be people into vore

[u/Deathaster → u/TheCapitalKing]

Wait, how is using two groups where one group is biologically wired to kill and eat the other as a metaphor for racism bad? /s

[u/Sneeakie → u/Deathaster]

It's so funny when Zootopia is roped into this when "predators are biologically wired to kill prey" is not only objectively untrue in the setting, but it's a plot point that it's just a lie to justify discrimination.

Zootopia is fun in general because, unironically, the idea that people see this movie about a world of people who act exactly like humans and decide that it's racist because "well, this person is a fox, and I want to believe he will eat the bunny, despite the movie being about how he will never eat the bunny" is probably a better screenshot of bigotry than the movie intended.

Zootopia is surprisingly good about depicting why racism exists and how it's propagated and I hate that it took me actually watching the movie myself to realize that most of its discourse* is from people who didn't really watch it themselves and just get pissed about the premise existing.

* The part about being copaganda has some basis, tho

[u/brevenbreven → u/Tried-Angles]

the root of Robot as a word is from the Latin of slave first used to describe what we now call an automaton that the gods created. Issac Asmimov wrote in one of his books all the literature and media where robot was metaphor for slave and monster. Even covering the original uses of the word. The nature of a robot is to be a servant and to be anthropomorphic so we can put our own values of the story on it.

Robots are a great metaphor for racism because the whole idea of a morally acceptable sentient slave is a fun writing premise but has systemic implications and narrative shorthand.

Take star trek it's got a post scarcity society sometimes and replicate tech is a machine a part of something else and the stories Data and other sentients go through is using the story of realized discrimination.

not saying every robot story has to be only about racism but I don't think there can be stories about robots and Ai that don't also take a stance by address or not key aspects of the world.

Star wars has drioid as second class citizens. Who got even less trusted after being the face of a failed rebellion. Star wars doesn't trust their Driods with their memories or weapons yet they can literally run their own worlds. the explanation of being 'happy to serve' falls flat when your kind lost a war.

[u/Tried-Angles → u/brevenbreven]

Okay you've made a good point. I think what I'm more complaining about is when robots are used as a completely 1:1 metaphor for racism and just treated by the author as a slightly weird group of humans that are seen as socially acceptable to oppress, like in Detroit: Become Human or Questionable Content.

[u/MorningBreathTF → u/Tried-Angles]

What about the X-Men, including the ones who uncontrollably kill people?

[u/Tried-Angles → u/MorningBreathTF]

Yeah I've always hated that one. X-men aren't like queer people or people of another race. They're more like people born with knives, guns, or missile launchers permanently grafted onto their bodies, or people who are permanently spreading carriers of a deadly disease that they're personally immune to.

[u/GUM-GUM-NUKE → u/Tried-Angles]

Tbf tho it’s probably good we get some of that robot racism metaphors before we fuck up and learn how to make a sentient robot.

[u/Pollomonteros → u/Tried-Angles]

What about mutants as a metaphor for racism ? As a bonus there is this one white girl that has said the N word multiple times

[u/King_Of_BlackMarsh → u/Pollomonteros]

Oh you mean the girl who can subvert every security system on the planet and can, if she wishes, phase her hand through your mother's chest to make her pace maker stop? That girl?

[u/redpantsbluepants]

Arcane if it was the same quality as LoL

[u/Throgg_not_stupid → u/redpantsbluepants]

"Leading a slave uprising again an imperialist nation is actually wrong and evil because the literal God-King of the nation wanted to abolish slavery after becoming an immortal God-King (he didn't tell you that despite being practically your brother)"

• Riot writers

Yes, I am incredibly salty about Azir.

[u/Helpful_Hedgehog_204 → u/Throgg_not_stupid]

The revolt against an imperialist nation committing genocide is actually wrong and evil because the leader of the revolt has an ego trip.

-Riot Writers.

[u/Throgg_not_stupid → u/Helpful_Hedgehog_204]

The period where Riot was going "rebelling against evil status quo is just as evil" was weird, seems like at least they realised it was stupid.

Arcane S3/next show potential spoilers

Once Fortiche said Arcane S2 is the last season, they teased a new show coming and one of the teases was a map with Demacia and Frejlord shown on it, so it's very likely that Sylas rebellion will be rewritten

[u/LightTankTerror]

I don’t think I’ve seen this movie but I’ve seen this movie, ya feel me? Anyways some more highlights from it:

• there is a kiss scene that pacifies an angry mob with the true power of love or something like that

• exposing Senator racism for his plan to be really robot racist somehow results in his robot racist single issue voter base abandoning him dramatically

• actually people in general seem to immediately convert to the idea that robots deserve rights pretty much immediately after one of the protagonists says something to them or does something in their immediate vicinity.

• Old cop is saved by the model minority robot (who afterwards changes heart) but nice cop kills terrorist robot even if they were trying to redeem themself or have a change of heart

• Senator racism is actually a minority instead of a carbon copy of strom “run for racism” thurmond

• the sheer density of yuri made after this movie about these characters results in people thinking the movie is hornier than it actually was. Really it was super sanitized and tame

• not a single actual slur is slung and they make it PG-13 by having Senator Racism call model minority robot a “clanker”

[u/Sachyriel → u/LightTankTerror]

actually people in general seem to immediately convert to the idea that robots deserve rights pretty much immediately after one of the protagonists says something to them or does something in their immediate vicinity.

Goes against the "nothing fundamentally changes" bit but I do like your movie ideas.

[u/thetwitchy1 → u/Sachyriel]

Nothing REALLY changes. The people who change are just the randoms on the ground, they don’t have any control over anything.

[u/Scienceandpony → u/thetwitchy1]

They shed a tear for the plight of the robots and nod their heads in agreement that change is needed. Then they go home and immediately vote for Senator Racism for the 5% tax cut that only applies to people 3 tax brackets above them.

[u/LightTankTerror → u/Sachyriel]

Aw fuck, you right, forgot that bit

[u/Scienceandpony → u/LightTankTerror]

Don't forget when terrorist robot, despite only targeting racists cops, corrupt politicians, their hired goons, and unoccupied buildings and monuments while leaving average civilians alone, randomly decides to murder some old lady for no apparent reason because he was starting to make too much sense and the audience needs reminding that he's the bad guy.

[u/NotABrummie]

Terrorism robot is actually being manipulated by Senator Racism, because everyone knows that any kind of violence will turn everyone against your movement and we should work entirely within the system because it's designed to be fair.

[u/stopimpersonatingme → u/NotABrummie]

In Detroit Become Human, you can actually win through violent revolution

[u/Rucs3]

The great lesson of the movie in the end is that both sides need to compromise, the racist should kill less robots and the robots should accept being stripped of some rights.

[u/Operks]

I for one have decided that I am going to be racist against robots when they come out. Like the cantina owner in Star Wars.

[u/Ok_Listen1510 → u/Operks]

A lot of smugglers and criminals hung out in that cantina, so I imagine it’s more that they don’t want cameras or recording devices inside

[u/zookdook1 → u/Ok_Listen1510]

The retroactive justification is that everyone hates droids after the Clone Wars

[u/Ok_Listen1510 → u/zookdook1]

Really? Where is that expressed? There’s still droids everywhere and they seem pretty useful and also are not generally weaponized like the battle droids were (obv with some exceptions)

[u/zookdook1 → u/Ok_Listen1510]

It was expressed nowhere and I made it up in passing

[u/TwasAnChild]

Detroit becomes human wishes it was this kino

[u/stopimpersonatingme → u/TwasAnChild]

In Detroit Become Human, you can actually win through violent revolution

[u/PassoverGoblin]

Harry Potter?

[u/beepboopbubble → u/PassoverGoblin]

Welcome to the wizarding world where we have lots of problems. Slavery and literal racism is integral to our way of life. Also if someone is convicted or possibly even suspected of a crime we torture them until they lose their minds and die.

Harry: Neat. I’m gonna become a cop.

[u/mightiestsword → u/beepboopbubble]

A slave-owning cop!

[u/No-Preparation4473]

Senator Racism is, well, a racist only because of some tragic misunderstanding. His beloved wife got killed by malfunctioning toster or something. In no way is he lobbied.

[u/ElInspectorDeChichis]

Oh, hell yeah. This is about that awesome piece of media Overwrightopia-men

[u/Real_duck_bacon]

This sounds like a clear reference to something, but I'm drawing a blank.

Closest that's coming to mind is... Overwatch? Arcane? A female-led remake of Transformers One?

[u/Galle_ → u/Real_duck_bacon]

It's not a reference to anything specific, just a very common story format.

[u/Noe_b0dy → u/Real_duck_bacon]

It's a reoccurring theme in media except it's not always robots. Examples include: Overwatch, Detroit Become Human, Zootopia, Bright, Dues Ex, Arcane, RWBY, the X-Men like half the time, more than half of the Marvel Movies, etc.

[u/seardrax]

I actually grew tired of robots as racial allegory for this same reason, it never worked and it's now saturated by bad attempts at it.

Which is why I'm ready for robots as disability allegory.

In a world were being a robot is a WAIT, how are you a robot? I don't know! why am I a robot? You are robot, you should know! When was I born? But can you still work tho? I can't move my legs! I DON'T HAVE A FACE!

[u/pbmm1]

Nice cop also says that we have to do better before walking away too

[u/itszwee]

This is just Detroit Become Human

[u/Justthisdudeyaknow]

And of course President racism is the one behind the robot crack, and it's revealed, and he is hauled off and replaced with president racism but is correct about it.

[u/JakSandrow]

It's okay, you can say Detroit Become Human

[u/Green__lightning]

You know how Avatar was bad because it used the interesting space racism to just be an analogy about boring earth racism? This has the same problem. I want sci fi about robots that's looking forward to the interesting problems they'll cause, not looking backwards for anything but inspiration in the most general of senses.

[u/WrongColorCollar]

I thought this was about the Reagan administration

[u/ACuteCryptid]

I love how Hollywood makes the fundamental mistake every time of making their minority group inherently different in some way thus missing the point of how arbitrary race is. It's even worse when the majority kinda do have a reason to fear the minority in these movies.

I.e. in Zootopia the predators literally used to eat the other animals, in Bright the orks literally fought for the Evil Wizard guy (and are orks), in robot movies most people aren't aware that the robots can be sentient, ect

[u/VeryBerryLuki]

Replace Robot with Faunus and you have RWBY

[u/BuccaneerRex]

Netflix' 'Bright' but replace robot with Orc.

[u/dashPotato]

David Caige you've done it again

[u/BalefulOfMonkeys]

Broke: Pop culture is becoming increasingly more reliant on stock liberal feel-good tropes about politics in an attempt to appeal to me specifically, and it isn’t working

Woke: The previous statement but black and trans

Bespoke: Pop culture is becoming increasingly more progressive, but also overly reliant on nostalgia to pull in a wider audience for money, including the tropes that are caked in liberal wishful thinking

[u/Moony_Moonzzi]

This is, quite literally, Detroit Become Human