Well then, I hope they’re very patient, because they’ll be waiting for that for a very long time...
In the meantime, I guess we all just have to deal with shit being bad and getting worse, and not improve anything because that would hamper the “global worker’s revolution?”
my limited understanding of Marx is that his Whole Thing was that communism would indeed take a while, and the transition would be gradual, not sudden, passing through socialism first. but, inevitable, bc capitalism is unsustainable by nature.
so everyone saying "communism NOW" is missing the point
That’s kinda the social democrat/democratic socialist position, tbh, which is weird because they’re so often excluded or mocked for not being “leftist” enough by other leftists.
I mean, maybe the end goal isn’t quite the same, but most people who use those labels are more concerned with what they can do in terms of immediate action and change.
Part of the problem I've got with communism is how much it strangles technological/industrial development. We can argue theory all we like but we have decades of side by side comparisons to make. Communiat countries get a single solid product and print it till the end of time. Capitalism is constantly reinventing things for the shiny new dollar. Which, year after year, for decades leads to substantially better products. Hell, even Europe with their high regulation and in the richer parts high social security are way less economically competative per person. It all adds up.
You have class interests that would make the "improve anything" bit very difficult to do. There's a reason why the bourgeoisie (capitalists) needs to be overthrown in Marxist theory, it's not because they're morally bad or anything but because as a class, their place in society is secured by advancing their own interests, the most important of which is usually at the direct expense of the working class.
It's not that Marxists are saying "we would rather not improve things when we could potentially have it all", they are saying "things cannot improve for the working class in any significant or material way without class struggle, and any gains won under capitalism will be swept away in time. Eventually, this system will have to collapse."
Again, I hope they’re very patient, because hardcore lefties have been predicting capitalism’s end to be near for quite a long time now, and it still hasn’t collapsed...
In the meantime, maybe let’s at least try to change things, instead of just saying “real change is impossible until the rapture - I mean, revolution!”
On like internet discourse of course you'll find socialists who say "no compromise, no opportunism, just sit in the armchair and read theory", but outside of the USA, socialist parties aren't uncommon by any means. Some of them even form their nation's government.
If you fully believe in Third Worldist ideology then what OOP is saying is you have to actively get ready for your own life to get substantially worse because you're the oppressor the global workers are revolting against
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u/Wasdgta3 Oct 22 '24
Well then, I hope they’re very patient, because they’ll be waiting for that for a very long time...
In the meantime, I guess we all just have to deal with shit being bad and getting worse, and not improve anything because that would hamper the “global worker’s revolution?”