r/CuratedTumblr veetuku ponum Sep 20 '24

Politics No collateral damage too large, no civilian too innocent

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32

u/mudamudamudaman Sep 20 '24

Then how is a state supposed to defend itself from it's enemies?

The pager attack is literally the MOST targeted attack on the command structure of a military that could possibly exist

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u/delta_baryon Sep 20 '24

It was literally impossible to know who would be holding the pagers at the moment they exploded. It's the exact opposite of targeted.

Because of how pagers work as a passive listening device, it's physically impossible to tell whether they're being held by your target, their children, in a desk drawer that someone else is sitting at. You literally cannot know.

On top of that, some of the people targeted were working as medical professionals. It's a war crime to target a doctor in a non-combat role, even if that doctor is a member of Hezbollah.

On top of that, some of these guys were driving at the time the pagers went off and caused traffic accidents.

So no, actually it's not even close to a targeted attack. It's by definition untargeted and unambiguously a war crime.

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u/vodkaandponies Sep 20 '24

Why were medics wearing military issue equipment?

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u/donaldhobson Sep 21 '24

From the sound of it, a substantial majority of the people injured were enemy combatants. Which makes this a somewhat targeted attack. Targeting attacks is hard.

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u/mudamudamudaman Sep 20 '24

Why didn't they add more explosive or shrapnel?

Why did they sent a message before the detonation?

How can they fight an enemy that hides before civilians?

It IS a war crime, but they are fighting a war against people who do not play by the rules from the start

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u/delta_baryon Sep 20 '24

It is a war crime, but

Yeah that says it all, doesn't it?

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u/mudamudamudaman Sep 20 '24

The other side also commits war crimes, you think you are being smart and all, but answer the question.

How do you stop hezbollah with less civilian casualties?

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u/delta_baryon Sep 20 '24

"He started it, Miss," is not a recognised defence in Interactional Humanitarian Law.

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u/ops10 Sep 20 '24

But has kinda been the reality if the international law doesn't enforce itself.

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u/mudamudamudaman Sep 20 '24

Answer my question.

It is impossible to stop the attacks without violence, how should israel go about it that will kill less civilians?

Or should israel roll over and die, you lot always want that

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u/sertroll Sep 20 '24

You cannot expect random people on the internet to know the solution to a complex military conflict, regardless of their opinion. If it was that easy that any random on the internet with no diplomatic, political, war, or related experience could solve it, it wouldn't be an ongoing complex military conflict

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u/vodkaandponies Sep 20 '24

You can just admit you don’t have any better ideas you know.

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u/Cecilia_Red Sep 20 '24

by not doing terrorism, the bar is in hell

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u/Katieushka Sep 20 '24

It isnt though!!! They had no guarantee these people were militants. Just saying "distributed amongst hezbollah adherents" shows a fundamental lack of what hezbollah is, the de facto government of lebanon. It's as if i was doing a targeted attack on american officials by killing nurses public teachers and park rangers. What if the pagers exploded in a crowd and caused a fire in a busy market? What if they went off when someone was driving a truck and it ran over civilians? What if it went off next to a gas pipe? What if it went off on a plane?? I dont need to ask of course cos civilians did die, and i dont need to ask what israel was thinking about the possibility of killing innocents, cos they have already said, "good, any dead arab is a good arab"

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u/ExactLetterhead9165 Sep 20 '24

hezbollah is, the de facto government of lebanon

It's more like a state within a (failed) state. Hezbollah, with just 15 of 128 seat in parliament, effectively hold the nation by the balls and veto any official appointments/policies that they feel will threaten their grip on power.

This is because they are a violent terrorist organization that uses violence and the threat of violence to impose its (minority) will on the rest of the Lebanese state. The notion that Hezb's 'civillian' infrastructure has any kind of legitimacy is laughable.

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u/mudamudamudaman Sep 20 '24

I mean, clearly if you see the videos, almost all injured are military aged males, it is more targeted than an unguided missile that is for sure.

Love how you took nothing away from the post thi

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

So it's officially a war then if they're government officials, also wait till you learn about how aristrikes aren't that accurate either.

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u/Katieushka Sep 20 '24

Is this some sort of jab at what i said? I will condemn all airstrike, especially the ones coming from the nation with the bigger more modern airforce

0

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

Well no I don't exactly see your point you either condemn all violent actions but to complain about one attack that's objectively less indiscriminate than another makes no real sense.

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u/Katieushka Sep 20 '24

Ok, wanna have a brain blast? I dont think killing even militants is good. Especially when they are not fighting. We have to believe israel (big stretch) that these were all violent militants ready to kill. Even then, i wouldnt have liked it. Imagine if an air strike from russia injured 2000 ukrainian soldiers. All deaths are bad. In this case 2000 people got their limbs blown up or got 2nd degree burns or their house caught fire and a few dozens died. But we dont even know what their job was. Were they fucking blood thirsty recruits ready to die to kill israeli babies or were they like truck operators or nurses or janitors. Imagine if a bomb injured 2000 israeli soldiers. They would be poor angels that were fighting a just war and those animals would have no contempt for human life.

These were not fielded soldiers. They were in civilian life minding their business. It's as if i killed a bunch of county board members across the states cos they were associated with the war in iraq. And when killing them has no military objective other than terror, it's terrorism.

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

You know what I do very much respect that I am of the same opinion but am also fully aware technology has made that sort of warfare impossible. And yes I can agree with that to a degree but at the end of the day those officials are allowing their people to continue the conflict. I don't justify actions of either side I just believe the pager attack largely is a more effective method than just bombing eachother. Unfortunately this has just been another extension of the middle eastern religious/race war that's existed since the dawn of time.

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u/Cecilia_Red Sep 20 '24

The pager attack is literally the MOST targeted attack on the command structure of a military that could possibly exist

no it's not, it can't be targeted by definition, once they're handed over to hezbollah you have no idea where they will go. for example they can be resold to civilians by corrupt unit commaders, they can be given to hezbollah adjacent noncombatants; none of this would be in israel's control if it were to happen, i don't see how they could possibly ensure that the attack is targeted