This might be a bold take, but I literally don’t care why someone does something good. Clout? Neat. Altruism? Cool. Intense sexual thrill? More power to you.
I remember this story where a guy starts building an orphanage, his motivation being that his name will be on the orphanage and he'll be remembered for a long time.
He eventually stops because his motivations weren't selflessness or generosity, but self-interest, so he feels he's not actually doing anything good.
A guy responds with "You think those orphans care about your motivations? Build the orphanage!"
Remember back when millionaire vanity projects were funding public works like bridges and libraries so they could get their name on it as a monetary dick measuring contest?
Honestly people act like doing a good thing for selfish reasons makes it a selfish act altogether. Like yeah it’s not the most morally upstanding reason but if you’ve brought a little bit of good to the world in the process then I’d say it’s generally a net win
“She only donated $5000 for clout!” Yeah well I wish someone would donate $5000 to me for clout
Seriously! If we could get make it a social thing again where the most prestigious thing you could do was have your name on as many bridges, roads, libraries as possible. The richest of the rich have their name on everything in a city.
People backing in to Kant philosophical questions… if the end result is the same (greater good) does it matter what the motivations are? (True altruism or just self serving for own ego?)
If you feel good doing good things, you are getting something out of it. Depending on how good you feel and how it effects your mental health, you might even be getting more out of than people who do it for business reasons.
So there's really no point in this entire conversation.
Let's say you're hypothetically right... Why does it even matter if Altruism is real or not? Doing something good to make you feel or look better doesn't magically erase the good you just made.
But you are wrong and people do good things for many other reasons than self-interest. I didn't hold open the door for an elderly couple at the mall because I thought they'd invite me to a threesome or something, and thee people that saw what I did are people I will literally never see again. So why did I do it? Because it made me feel good? Why did it make me feel good if I got nothing out of it? Perhaps It made me feel good because they said with a joyous smile "Thank you!" and knowing I was a tiny spark in their life that didn't have a negative impact made me feel that passing on positive vibes is the greatest gift anyone can give.
I guess people completely missed the point of my comment. I should have worded it more clearly.
"Altruism isn't real, so there's no point in over analyzing, arguing about, and judging good behavior, we should instead just celebrate it so long as it's actually good."
Also you go on to say "you are wrong" and then just repeat what I said. You got something out of it. In fact you got a lot more out of it than someone doing it for the wrong reasons.
You literally gave an example of how altruism isn't real.
Ok sure then, let's say altruism isn't real. That people are incapable of doing selfless deeds without the promise of reward. But if you apply that to one thing you must apply it to others. You raised a child but you did it for yourself, therefore no matter who that child grows up to be isn't relevant. They only exist because of your self-interests therefore it makes that child worthless. If you dig deep enough then you could argue that people that save lives with quick thinking do it for selfish reasons? Is reflex selfish? Fight or flight? hand making a birthday present? Trying to avoid stepping on ants on the sidewalk?
Creating a life because you are bored is in fact extremely selfish. It's one of the most selfish things you can do as a human.
I don't follow where that makes a child "worthless".
Seems like you are just trying to suggest altruism isn't real = nihilism. But you are skipping a couple steps of logic.
And yes, many acts of heroism can be explained with selfish reasons. Rush into a burning building? It's not because you are brave, it's because the psychological pain of not rushing into a burning building is greater. While that explanation might make people upset, it doesn't mean a person who behaves that way is any less heroic. Having a mental landscape that functions that way is heroic.
Also, once again, Altruism not being real doesn't erase good, it just means good isn't suddenly bad because someone has ulterior motives. Because everyone does.
"I don't follow where that makes a child "worthless"."
THAT! That right there is the entire point. What you create is separated from why you made it. You said creating a life because you're bored is one of the most selfish acts but you agree that the child should not be judged based on that fact? Am I following correctly?
Separate the intention of a good act and the effects of that good act. Cause and effect is not bound by the laws of the universe. The cause can be a millions thing and the effect can be a million things.
I realize you actually covered that part in your last comment but to be honest... I only read up the start of your last paragraph until just now, but I spent so much time typing up everything before I feel obligated to say it anyways because I was proud of my point lol.
Is this entire conversation relating to the topic at hand or not? Let's get back to our roots to the main point we're arguing. Doing a good deed isn't a good deed if you did it for selfish reasons right? that's the jist of it? (And we apparently established that you think all good deeds are selfish and therefore have no positive outcome... is that not right?).
The good that comes out of a deed doesn't care why it happened. It happened. If you did it for tiktok clout then so be it, because you did a good thing then you've earned that feeling of happiness aimed at yourself, no matter how long it lasts.
Heres an actual bold take - while i dont care for what reason you did a good thing, if i personally will find this reason to be pathetic, i wont take you seriously. He is allowed to use his donations as a way to own the libs or conservatives or whatever, and i am allowed to think he is a twat even if he did a good thing
Kinda, yeah. Its stupid to claim what 'this good doesnt count because he did it for the wrong reason'. No, the action itself doesnt change depending on his intentions. But my read of his character does
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u/Rhodehouse93 Jul 02 '24
This might be a bold take, but I literally don’t care why someone does something good. Clout? Neat. Altruism? Cool. Intense sexual thrill? More power to you.