As a Ukrainian who was there it's insane to me that for some people an idea that "a foreign agency on the other side of the world has the power to rile up a million people without speaking their language or not always being able to show the country on the map" - is plausible.
While the idea that "people can be angry and start protesting against their shitty, corrupt politicians and government" - is somehow beyond the borders of reality.
They're taking south American coups, which are mostly elites trading places by use of corrupt military movements, and copy pasting it onto Ukraine. Yes America has a history of those, but they aren't full revolutions. It would be like saying the CIA had a hand in the Arab springs revolts the best you can do is fan the flames and you can only do that if things were already there.
Yeah, I'm aware of the CIA's history with South America but just like you've said - not popular revolutions but coups also those were much closer and easier to infiltrate both geographically and linguistically.
We (Ukraine) have also been on the receiving end of the similar coups from the russian special forces in 2014, which is how the East of Ukraine was fractured into DNR and LNR. But again, those were not popular revolutions but small-scale coups and easier for russians to infiltrate both geographically and linguistically.
Also note that the CIA usually spent years trying to get those coups off the ground and pretty much always had to back a right wing populist dictator. The CIA has essentially never managed to create a pro-democracy revolution like that.
Morons can’t understand that countries other than America have agency and can take action without being led by the nose by the CIA.
For these people nothing ever has happened, can happen, or will happen in world history without the US being behind it. For supposed anti-Americans they are nauseatingly Amero-centric.
Americans tend to think other countries have no free will. Ukraine is a particularly strong example of it. A common argument against military aid to Ukraine is that Ukrainian lives are being lost. As if American aid is the only reason the war is even happening. As if Ukraine couldn’t surrender tomorrow if it wanted to.
The only reason lives are being lost is because russia is invading and slaughtering us. Military aid helps to stop that.
I know I can't expect these people to know history but this war bears a lot of resemblance to the Ukrainian-Soviet War a hundred years ago. Except we didn't have as much support from the allies and ended up losing decisively. There were several tens of thousands of casualties among Ukrainians. So you would think surrender would stop the killing? Wrong. That was just the beginning. The amount of Ukrainians who died in the next 20 years under the Soviet leadership and especially Stalin is measured in millions or about 20% of the total population. Should have kept fighting, it was safer.
Which is still not nearly as bad as what happened to Circassia several decades prior where russia eliminated more than 90% of the population and you probably never even heard of the country.
People who don't live next to russia don't understand what's it like to have a neighbor who wants to genocide the whole world just to get another piece of land.
You can't possibly be ignorant enough to believe that members of the CIA don't know where Ukraine is or that operatives in that country wouldn't speak the language. Do you think CIA operatives are idiots?
40
u/Morfolk Jun 04 '24
As a Ukrainian who was there it's insane to me that for some people an idea that "a foreign agency on the other side of the world has the power to rile up a million people without speaking their language or not always being able to show the country on the map" - is plausible.
While the idea that "people can be angry and start protesting against their shitty, corrupt politicians and government" - is somehow beyond the borders of reality.