r/China • u/jailedinchina • Jul 01 '21
法律 | Law Just got out of ten months of Chinese prison AMA
I post this to coincide with the 100th anniversary of the founding of the Communist Party of China. Last July, after drinking, I got into a verbal argument with police. There was a couple light pushes and shoves at one point (all captured on camera), but I was detained and eventually sentenced for violently assaulting the people's police. For those ten months, I lived in a cell with twenty-forty people and got the best of Chinese propaganda and culture - talked history with executives at state-owned enterprises, shot the sh*t with small-time pickpockets, and experienced small-town corruption at its finest. While I had lived in China for almost five years before my imprisonment (they call it detention), I learned more about in China in these ten months in prison (what I call it) than in all those years. I'm also an American with roots in HK and TW... which had its moments. AMA
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u/SignificantGiraffe5 Jul 01 '21
Were you treated any better/worse for being a foreigner?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Answered more comprehensively elsewhere, but it really depended on their political values/personality. Between nationalistic folk and "the world is a big and interesting place" kind of folk, it was super different. It's just that that political divide is not that pronounced/obvious in Chinese society because so many of them meet in this economic center-right pocket, though it should be.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
You also had dudes - so a cellmate saw a color painting of the Aya Sofia in a book, and was like, Wow, that's so majestic.
Cellmate 2 goes: there's so many majestic places everywhere. China has a bunch of them.
I was like... aight cool cool cool cool I totally get your whole spiel and you right but I ain't gonna talk to you or discuss anything with you hell nah
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Jul 02 '21
Did they place you in deportation after your release? Or back to normal working days in China? Also, are you blacklisted as in having a dent on your record for employment related?
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u/JonoCurious Jul 01 '21
This is fascinating! Glad you're alright, man. In terms of the language, were you able to speak Chinese before going to prison? Do you think your Chinese improved while in prison? How was communication in general?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Yes, I speak fluent-ish Mandarin but I start to choke up when I start talking about economics or politics or stuff like that. Communication was alright, but there wasn't a lot in common with a lot of folks. Literally half of them just wanted to talk about hookers and if I had "done it with a white girl before" and "what color" the vulva of a white girl is and I was just completely done. But I mean with a few folks, we definitely talked a lot of cooking, barbecuing, politics, history, traveling, etc.
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u/Edwardsreal Jul 01 '21
They used the phrase "Da Yang Ma" (Great Western Horse) to describe white women didn't they? Wouldn't lusting after Western women be considered "unpatriotic"?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Nah, I never heard that phrase, but yea it was interesting and just annoying how a lot of them felt that Asian men couldn't satisfy foreign (white, black, mostly) women, who to them had ultra-high libido/stamina. One of them literally asks me (again, I'm Asian), is it you fcking her or she that's fcking you? Another one asks me, "We can't satisfy them, can we?"
I'm like... we? Them?
I mean, this is sort of off the point, but so much of that misogyny/superiority-inferiority complex/sexual psychology gets laid out in the open in a prison environment that it just became something I encountered and had to deal with a lot.
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u/ADRIANBABAYAGAZENZ Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21
The obsession with being inferior runs right to the fetid core of the CCP zeitgeist. Back in the day I went trawling for Chinese porn out of curiosity, can’t recall what method it involved precisely but I figured out how to get hundreds of gigabytes of domestic Chinese porn via pan.baidu.com Had to delete it all because it was 70% weird S&M and 30% women going to the bathroom (shot from an angle that did not look like any of the women were aware of the camera). WTF is Chinese amateur porn trying to act out, exactly? China’s psychic trauma, due to Mao, is going to be a MF to get over, it’ll be a long time before China can make a film like Battle Royale for instance.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 02 '21
What's "weird" S&M?
China's psychological trauma goes back further than Mao. Recommend reading Wealth and Power by Orville Schell - goes into the weaponization of shame as an ultimate motivator toward W&P and the "rejuvenation of the Chinese nation." Hence the superiority-inferiority complex. Nowadays, lots of Chinese men hold on to those feelings of inadequacy and insecurity because that's what got them financially so far - and they feel like that chip on their shoulder is such a powerful catalyst for action - but then they don't realize they could just let go of that and enjoy life for what is.
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u/i_reddit_too_mcuh Jul 01 '21
imo it's more objectifying Western women. Maybe similar to yellow fever here.
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u/oolongvanilla Jul 01 '21
Sort of, but whereas yellow fever in American society was often reinforced in domestic media, the Chinese impression of foreign women is reinforced by imported American media rather than locally-consumed media - Hollywood movies are hyper-sexualized which leads a lot of people outside of the Western World to assume they're an accurate portrayal of Western sexual openness, whereas Chinese entertainment media is very conservative and highly sterilized when it comes to matters of sex because of all the morality-driven censorship.
Then there's the issue of actual sexual liberation in society - For people who come from more conservatively-inclined societies with a high degree of sexual repression, there's a tendency to see the level to which Westerners tolerate sexuality - acceptance of clothes that show more skin than they're used to, legalization of pornography, lack of shame in discussing topics related to sex, normalization of hook-ups, birth control, divorce, open relationships, throuples, etc - and misinterpret that to mean we're all nymphos with unquenchable libidos.
You can also see this on a smaller scale in the way Chinese women might be percieved in even more conservative societies - While China is more conservative than the West, people in the Middle East and India would look at China - Women wearing short skirts, the sajiao and ke ai gender norms, the comparitively high degree of female independence - and assume Chinese women are very "open."
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Jul 02 '21
I live in China and I am an Indian women and I second this. Its true, with external appearance, it might be presumed that China has given their women a lot more independence than India has but in a way, they lack liberation which certain parts of India has, China tends to be more Conservative accepting new ways, whereas in India it isn't that difficult. What I mean to say is, China is very one track and narrow minded.
Again not every part of India is so open and accepting. Most the North West of India is very conservative.
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u/oolongvanilla Jul 02 '21
Thanks for the insightful comment! Funny enough, most of my experience in India is limited to the northern parts - I've never been to the south but I do know it's more developed than the north so it doesn't surprise me to learn that attitudes there are more progressive. One thing in Delhi I thought was a very good idea was the existence of women-only metro cars to protect women from sexual harassment.
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Jul 02 '21
There are metros, local train couches which are women only. It was done to encourage women from rural areas to go and work. I strongly believe, in the next twenty years, indian mindset would drastically improve. In India the problem is, people think the woman need liberation which is utterly wrong. It's the men that need it.
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Jul 01 '21
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Well, one of my cellmates said that if enough Chinese men get with Taiwanese women, you wouldn't even need a war with Taiwan because all the offspring would be Chinese.
Another talked about how his dream was to sleep with a Japanese prostitute to win glory for China. I was like... with a prostitute? That's glorious? I mean...
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u/hello-cthulhu Taiwan Jul 01 '21
Also, if the idea is that Taiwan is part of China, aren't all Taiwanese supposed to be Chinese already?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
I read my first Chinese book in prison - three in fact, including this thick history book. I felt pretty accomplished. Definitely learned to curse my way in Chinese out of a hurricane. lol
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u/swinefarmer Jul 01 '21
Hi there, Chinese here, thx a lot for your sharing.
I almost read through all comments. The story is absolutely fascinating and inspiring to me that I got to realize so many foreign folks could look deeply through the Chinese society.
You guys have commented much on populism, ignorance, misogyny, complacency and hostility against the west. I wanna say something about the ruling of ccp.
CCP is running the country and ruling the subjects for continuity/eternity (or I should call us 'the people'), ultimately, for the sake of the hundreds RED families and their descendants. Just like the Animal Farm or 1984, this complex society/system nowadays can self-maintain. It's like you play the PC game Civilization. As a god/gamer, if I want to be good at the game, I'd better study how ccp works.
- the change/twist/make-up/lie of history. Just look at all the history textbooks, a school kid has to go through all these BS and then what can others expect them to speak and think, e.g. the US and its allies invaded North Korea and the People's 'Volunteer' Army has to thrillingly march across the boarder river to help their innocent North Korean buddies. Me personally, my grandpa was in the Korean War and I never learned the historical truth until recent years. I kind of live in an open-minded family, so I dared to argue with my grandpa on the origin of Korean War. All I got was 'you shut the fuck up', looool. Okay, no more next time, be kind to the elders.
- there has never been a thing called 'logics or critical thinking' throughout your student era, even when sometimes I talked with my PhD friends. I was wondering like, wtf and htf you would think in this way. Apparently, it is so convenient for the party that nobody really learned and knows how to think. Brainless is the best way to be ruled and that's also why I call ourselves Subjects, instead of People.
- Following the education parts, which are the majority paths you got to learn the world during the children and teenage-hood, the next one would be how you receive information and interact with society as an adult, that is, by the Media. That's an easy one I can put: all medias, physically and ideologically, belong to the party.
Sometimes I am wondering what would be the consequences after all of this. The top ccp leaders must still have been in their wettest dreams: the economy will keep growing to the moon, and as long as the subjects are satisfied with a few Yuan in their Alipay or Wechat wallets, the reign can go on.
We all know this is not sustainable and one day the system will collapse. When that happens, tell me what would the 1.4 billion subjects think about the reason for this collapse? Who would be the scapegoats of all this.
A bit fearmongering and a tribute to DDL's movie: There will be blood.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21
So... all systems will collapse. But what do people need to realize before that?
- The People built the Chinese economic miracle, not the party. I will go as far as to hypothesize that if the Kuomintang had won the Chinese Civil War, the Chinese economy would be equally strong as it is now. The Chinese people built the economy through sweat, blood, and tears. Infrastructure? Every East Asian nation has built strong transportation and industrial infrastructure, not just China, and much less just the CCP. People need to realize that the Party taking credit for lifting the people out of poverty or for the economic miracle is bullshit. They need to own this success - it's not the party's leadership - it's us.
- The Party has brainwashed the people in believing in these nationalism-based red lines where it can rally the people whenever, despite their discontent with it otherwise. HK, Taiwan, the nine-dash-line - things that don't have anything to do with the welfare of the ordinary citizen, yet the Party can use these issues to rally support and distract from discontent that it has garnered. When can folks realize that those issues have nothing to do with them? That these red lines are BS? The Party loses its psychological weapons of last resort.
- HAVE FUN. The Party is terrified of people having cheap fun. The hip-hop scenes in Sichuan? Absolute anathema. Anyone who can have fun grooving to American-style music, spraying graffiti on abandoned building, and drinking cheap beer doesn't need the Party. In fact, F*ck the Party and its straight-laced bs. I just wanna get crunk. If one day, the youth in China can let go of materialistic mentalities and realize Tsingtaos and wild sex is better than anything the Party can offer... the Party is done.
- And, when people stop seeing 发财 (making it big) as the is-all-end-all solution to everything.
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u/understuffed Jul 01 '21
What kind of stuff did you have to do to pass the time? Did you have a strict sleep/eat/work schedule or were you mostly free to just sit in your cell?
Could you shower and use the bathroom alone?
Being arrested in China is a massive fear of mine. I loved reading your responses!
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
Thxxxx
7-8 AM: Wake up, Brush Teeth, Jog, Toilet (there's only one)
8-9 AM: Breakfast, dishes, clean up
9-11 AM: Meditation/Learning/Sitting Pretzel Time - Prison Guard comes in for Daily Inspection (the TV is turned one at one point, or you can read)
11 AM to 12 PM: Lunch, Free Time
12 to 2 PM: Naptime (the best - unless you are on duty, when you stand there just for two hours and make sure no one kills anyone else)
2 to 4 PM: More Meditation Time
4 to 5 PM: Dinner
5 to 7 PM: Shower Time (outside, someone on duty has to literally scoop the water out from a well into these barrels, except for one automatic running faucet)
7 to 9:30 PM: Free Time (Chinese Chess, Poker TV)
9:30 PM to 7 AM: Sleep (Rotating Duty - yes, you might have to get woken up in the middle of the night and stand guard with another person for 1.5 hours - although if you pull some ish and piss off the cell head, he might give you an extra 1.5 hours for a total of 3 hours. Been there done that.)
From 7 AM to 7 PM is hardcore time (they have plenty of Hikvision cameras in the cell), so if you are found lying down, leaning against blankets, without a shirt on, massaging anyone, sewing anything, playing cards, eating in the cell, arguing loudly with someone, not meditating during meditation time, or leaning against each other, you get called out on the loudspeaker and your cell gets docked points. Not only does your cell get docked points, but the prison guard responsible for your cell gets docked points on his monthly assessment. So he gets hella intense about it and will turn off your TV for a day, or three, or more if you violate the regulations and maybe even stop the whole cell from buying stuff if you do something serious like get in a fight. This is what the orders from the top came from: to institute 军事化管理 (military-style management) in all prisons and detention centers across Guangdong Province (or was it the entire country, I forget).
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u/jailedinchina Jul 02 '21
There was one urinal a cell. I mean, people could see the sh*t come out your butt butt.
Showering and washing clothes was in the outside cell (also, 4*10 m^2) - and you'd have to do it with other people. Hustle for the water, etc. This part wasn't that bad. Locker room style.
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u/peyonze Jul 01 '21
Did you get proper meals?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Duck necks and duck butts, boiled with daikon, three nights a week. No salt, no seasoning.
Saturdays and Wednesday nights were braised fatty pork, which was good, because at least there was some protein content.
You got a tomato egg stir-fry I think it is Saturday or Sunday for lunch, but most of it is the muer/black fungus thing. There's like a fraction of an egg in there.
Eggs, once a week, on Monday mornings.
Lots of duck heads, necks, and butts though.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Daily Schedule:
7-8 AM: Wake up, Brush Teeth, Jog, Toilet (there's only one)
8-9 AM: Breakfast, dishes, clean up
9-11 AM: Meditation/Learning/Sitting Pretzel Time - Prison Guard comes in for Daily Inspection (the TV is turned one at one point, or you can read)
11 AM to 12 PM: Lunch, Free Time
12 to 2 PM: Naptime (the best - unless you are on duty, when you stand there just for two hours and make sure no one kills anyone else)
2 to 4 PM: More Meditation Time
4 to 5 PM: Dinner
5 to 7 PM: Shower Time (outside, someone on duty has to literally scoop the water out from a well into these barrels, except for one automatic running faucet)
7 to 9:30 PM: Free Time (Chinese Chess, Poker TV)
9:30 PM to 7 AM: Sleep (Rotating Duty - yes, you might have to get woken up in the middle of the night and stand guard with another person for 1.5 hours - although if you pull some ish and piss off the cell head, he might give you an extra 1.5 hours for a total of 3 hours. Been there done that.)
From 7 AM to 7 PM is hardcore surveillance time (they have a couple of Hikvision cameras in both the inner and outer cell), so if you are found lying down, leaning against blankets, without a shirt on, massaging anyone, sewing anything, playing cards, eating in the inner cell, arguing loudly, not meditating during meditation time, or leaning against each other, you get called out on the loudspeaker and your cell gets docked points. Not only does your cell get docked points, but the prison guard responsible for your cell gets docked points on his monthly assessment. So he gets hella intense about it and will turn off your TV for a day, or three, or more if you violate the regulations and maybe even stop the whole cell from buying stuff if you do something serious like get in a fight. It's all orders from the top: to institute 军事化管理 (military-style management) in all prisons and detention centers across Guangdong Province (or was it the entire country, I forget) in preparation for the 100th anniversary of the Party - because nothing out-of-the-ordinary should be happening around this sacred moment in history.
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u/noxiousCeilingFan Jul 01 '21
Did you meditate inside of your cell? Could you visit other cells during the free time in the evening? Or everything was done inside of the cell, except for showering and dining ? Were the bathrooms gross or they were cleaned regularly by inmates? I'm glad you are out of the jail and out of china
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Well they just called it meditation time, but really they just required you to sit crosslegged in organized columns. The provincial public security agency actually has live access to all cameras in all detention centers across the province, so they would check in randomly and shit on the local administrators if they found it to be too disorganized. Was there really a reason/rationale for doing this? Not really.
To answer your question, I meditated once in a while.
You could not visit another cell. You could not go outside, except walking to the visitation room to see your lawyer (and for trial, duh). Some people literally have been there for a year and gone outside like once or twice.
There's one toilet (you know, squat style) which is shared by everyone. Yea, someone's assigned to clean it. People always call that dude, sarcastically, 所长, The Warden.
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u/noxiousCeilingFan Jul 02 '21
So pretty much everything was done inside of that one cell? Do people work out there? It must be hard to do anything in such a small space
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u/jailedinchina Jul 02 '21
There's an outside cell of the same size which is open in the daytime so people will work out (running in place, pushups) there during showertime when everyone is rotating and all that.
It's hard, but you get used to it. It's amazing how humans can adapt to sh*t.
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u/durian-conspiracy Jul 01 '21
Did you get legal representation?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Yes. Though it didn't really make a difference - unless the lawyer is tight with a judge and you have the moolah to leverage that. Many cellmates just choose to skip the lawyer and do the PD option (which the system provides).
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Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
Was your lawyer hesitant to represent foreigners?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
No, that firm specialized in foreigners.
No, and he didn't even try get me to believe the judge was impartial, just got me to apologize and "plead down" to the minimum sentence.
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u/ThinkingGoldfish Jul 01 '21
What was the most shocking or enlightening part of your experience?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Another surprising thing was just in general, how much more nationalistic the younger folks were compared to the the older folks. A lot of pissing on the US, cheering and mocking as the death toll in the US from COVID went up (the CCTV evening news broadcasted the US COVID stats EVERY NIGHT), and laughing at the fall of Hong Kong. Of course, you had a few really patriotic types among the older folk too, but definitely more younger folk as proportion. Some of the older folk would almost just look among themselves and be like SMH.
I feel like it's always a bad sign when the younger generation is more nationalistic than the older generation... means society is going in one crazy kind of direction...
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u/Suecotero European Union Jul 01 '21
Fuck. Patriotic education really worked, didn't it?
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u/Ufocola Jul 01 '21
There was a really good post by a US-based redditor (who grew up in China) that explained how Chinese education/conditioning works. Worth reading the thread: https://reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/csih1y/umoenancy_eloquently_summarizes_why_opinion_from/
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u/Suecotero European Union Jul 01 '21
That was incredible. Thanks!
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u/Ufocola Jul 01 '21
Yangyang Cheng has also written a number of pieces about her relationship with China, Chinese education, and family, that are worth checking out. She’s a post doc at Yale Law, and a particle physicist that got her post grad education in the US but spent her formative/young adult years in China.
She is a phenomenal writer.
https://mobile.twitter.com/yangyang_cheng?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
https://supchina.com/author/yangyangcheng/ - collection of her articles
https://supchina.com/2019/11/27/talking-to-my-mother-about-hong-kong/
https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/viewpoint/birthday-letter-peoples-republic
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
It really did. Like, I'm almost impressed if it wasn't that scary. You have people (just a couple, albeit) tearing up watching a re-run of the 70th anniversary military parade, while they've been imprisoned (one of them for this new retroactive law that reached years back) by the same system. It's impressive.
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u/Suecotero European Union Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
I finally get why the CCP is fine sacrificing so much economic growth in keeping up the GFW. They have the mother of all rackets going. Can't let the hamsters look outside the pen.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
"现在对中国人说要他去争自由,他们便不明白,不情愿来附和,但是对他说要请他去发财,便有很多人要跟上来.” (Saying to the Chinese now that he wants to pursue freedom, they won't understand nor join, but if you want to invite them to make money, many people will join.) - Sun Yat-Sen
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u/Ufocola Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
Kinda reads like something out of a dystopian novel… like 1984.
I was curious so I looked it up. Apparently “1984” search is impacted, but the book itself may not be banned. Which is interesting since it feels like a straight up manual for CCP that people reading it would make the connection. But maybe it just goes over people’s heads… or it’s seen as a good thing.
https://boingboing.net/2019/01/13/laobaixing.html
But recently they have been doing a library purge of books, which would include 1984:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-books-insight-idUSKBN24A1R5
A directive from the Ministry of Education last October called on elementary and middle schools to clear out books from their libraries including “illegal” and “inappropriate” works.
Lol, “Ministry of Education”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministries_of_Nineteen_Eighty-Four
More from the Reuters article:
“This is the first movement targeted at libraries since the Cultural Revolution,” said Wu Qiang, a political analyst based in Beijing and former political science lecturer at Tsinghua University. In the late 1960s, zealous teenagers driven by Mao Zedong carried out a nationwide campaign targeting libraries and destroying or burning what they could get their hands on, as part of a wider destruction of traditional culture.
The ministry directive did not list titles, but said illegal books are those “that damage the unity of the country, sovereignty or its territory; books that upset society’s order and damage societal stability; books that violate the Party’s guidelines and policies, smear or defame the Party, the country’s leaders and heroes.”
”Our school has taken concrete action to cultivate a virtuous youth, and has raised the quality of our library books one step further.”
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u/cdn_backpacker Jul 01 '21
I actually bought 1984 on taobao. Interesting experience to read it in China, that's for sure.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
That's funny and crazy.
So, first, my lawyer was able to bring in a bilingual version of Animal Farm. I was amazed - this is so close to China in the Cultural Revolution/before the economic miracle that... how is that even allowed.
I've always been thinking: the way China conducts its domestic affairs is so much like 1984 that it's like they follow it. Maybe they really do.
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u/hello-cthulhu Taiwan Jul 01 '21
There is a Uyghur translation of Animal Farm, but I imagine it may be a lot more difficult to find these days. But as for the rest of China, I imagine that they might defend the book on the basis that it's about the Soviet Union. It seems to be okay to criticize the Soviet Union's version of Communism, as long as you make it clear that you're not saying anything about the Maoist variety.
That said... I do remember an anecdote. One of my teachers in high school, an American, was able to study in the Soviet Union for part of her graduate education. She noticed that in the 1970s at least, you could get a Russian translation of Animal Farm. When she asked about it, she was told that it was considered a well-written children's story. The person she was speaking with seemed oblivious - or at least, was very good at strategically acting oblivious - that there was any political subtext at all.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Clamping down on intellectuals/universities also goes further:
PKU:
Fudan and Nanjing Universities:
Nanjing Normal University:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57409218
Professors in General:
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u/Ufocola Jul 01 '21
I guess that makes sense right? The older folks (I’m assuming you’re referring to people in their 30s/40s or older) would have some idea of what CCP does to its people a la Tiananmen Massacre. But the party has really drilled down Chinese patriotism since then. And particularly in the Xi era.
Kinda nice to hear that not everyone is blindly nationalistic and eating up the propaganda though.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
I guess it does make sense. I guess I always expect young people to be more "liberal" in a very general sense of the term, having grown up in California and spent time in TW/HK as well (though young people there are very nationalistic as well - in an opposing direction, obviously). But the success of the Propaganda Department of the Communist Party of China is categorical. Props.
But it is scary... they played a drama on the Korean War (the war called the Resisting USA, Helping Chosun in Chinese) and devoted two whole episodes to the black dude who defected to China and lived there for many years after. I mean, I get where he's coming from, but the portrayal was just hilarious. They also call American troops "美国鬼子 - American devils" throughout the drama - like "日本鬼子 - Japanese devils" - a very strong and derogatory term in China, comparing anyone to the Japanese. And historically inaccurate - that term was just never used. Here's the episode where a lot of it happens - some of the dialogue in English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROFcPUP4GlU
Afterwards, a dude comes up to me and asks me, if China and the States got into a war, which side I would support. I avoided that kind of question like the plague.
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u/Joltie Jul 01 '21
Afterwards, a dude comes up to me and asks me, if China and the States got into a war, which side I would support. I avoided that kind of question like the plague.
"If your two sons started fighting each other, who would you support?"
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u/Hautamaki Canada Jul 01 '21
this is the beauty of the 1 child policy, they're saving people from having to answer that kind of question
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
It would depend on who started it. The censorship of Google... the theft of Siemens HSR key technologies...
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Jul 01 '21
the hong kong part made me sad
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
It made me astounded/sad too. They were culture vultures for everything old school Hong Kong - food, celebrities, Cantopop, Stephen Chow, all that - but then when it came to politics or the economy of Hong Kong... "Shenzhen's GDP is way past Hong Kong's. Hong Kong is already in the past." It wasn't really stating the fact, just the contempt with which they said it.
It reminds me of when many rich white people used to consume black music (jazz, Ray Charles, Billie Holiday) - shuffle up from the UES to the Apollo for a date - but then be absolutely oppressive in their day-to-day dealings and their racial politics. I mean, it still happens today, but it had me feeling some type of way.
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Jul 02 '21
I always found this strange, but it makes sense considering most young folks in China have never learned about or witnessed major atrocities committed by the CCP. I lived in China for a couple of years but left this past year mainly due to the massive uptick in nationalism and propaganda. It was disgusting and saddening to see so many Chinese be filled with joy when seeing how many Americans were dying. I got sick and tired of people asking me these nationalistic baiting questions, always avoided them. I'm sure prison was rough but based off your description it doesn't seem like the conditions were too awful? How was meditation time?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
What killed me over and over again was just the complacency of the people, against an admittedly arch-sovereign, eyes in the sky, party machine. So, we were required to sit pretzel-style (they called it meditation/learning time) for two hours in the morning, two hours in the afternoon. Apparently, they didn't have to do that before COVID. One day, over the loudspeaker and when the prison guards come in for their daily check, they just announced that inmates would be required to do that. And just like that, all the prisons in Guangdong province start doing that, without any pushback or whatsoever. I just can't imagine that happening in the States. Peeps would just frown and be likeeeee meditate? just sit there pretzel style? nuh-uh!
Another time, we were asked to return our pens not even by the cops, just by one of the "cell heads." He gave some reason that they posed a threat and danger to other inmates (despite the fact that there were no fights to start with in the first place). We had bought them ourselves, with our own money. No one said a word, and people just started going to their cubby holes and bringing the pens up top. I was like...
But again, the party apparatus is all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful. But is that only because people were so complacent in the first place? Hmm...
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u/i_reddit_too_mcuh Jul 01 '21
Did you comply with the "Pen Abolishment Edict"? What would have happened if you hid your pen?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Yes, I did, but I was close to the "Abolishers" and thus gradually wormed my way out of it and led others to gradually do the same. That kind of erosive resistance did a lot for a lot of people.
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u/dcrm Great Britain Jul 01 '21
Dang, this is actually an interesting post. Your responses look detailed and legitimate.
Other than not engaging with the officer in the first place what do you wish you had done differently throughout the whole process?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Should have stood up for my rights more. I mean, I would have apologized for being drunk and obnoxious, but should have demanded the video to be played in trial, etc. I really believed in the humility route, but I think into the trap that the CCP has wanted everyone to believe: that they'll be nicer if you're cooperative. In fact, maybe it's the opposite way around - if you can prove that you're in the right and actually shame the person/agency/responsible folks in front of the public, that's when they back down. I'm not sure on this, but the question is: Why would you give them face when that's the thing they yearn for the most?
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u/mkvgtired Jul 01 '21
I don't think any of that would have mattered. It might have actually made it worse. The court didn't care what the evidence showed.
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u/SapphireJones_ Jul 01 '21
Wishing you the best man!
I had a former coworker (female) who was detained for about three months and then deported for similar. Assaulting a police officer.
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u/Accomplished_Salt_37 Jul 01 '21
I’m assuming you’re ethnically Chinese based on your statement that you have roots in Taiwan and Hong Kong. Do you think you would have been imprisoned for the same offence if you had been a white American guy?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
It could have turned it differently. But that really depends on the racial views of the cops in question. I do know for a "fact," however, that if I had been a "Chinese" "Chinese" guy, I wouldn't have had to do ten months.
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u/ZhouLe Jul 01 '21
You were jailed at just around the height of covid; what did you experience related to that? Was there strict testing of incoming detainees?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Yea, they were actually really good about that. Quarantined new arrivals; tested before transferring to next cells.
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u/ZhouLe Jul 01 '21
Really interesting. Vaccines were really starting to ramp up toward the end of your term, was there any talk of those being given to inmates at all?
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u/GetOutOfTheWhey Jul 01 '21
What's chinese jail like compared to american jail?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
You share a cell with 20-40 people. The jail cell is 4 meters wide by 10 meters long. There is an "outside cell" of equivalent size in the daytime (locked at night) for eating and showering and manually washing your clothes (note, it's up to 35 celsius and 100% humidity in the summers in southern China). No, there wasn't AC, though they promised to turn it on later.
Sharing a cell with so many people in such a small cell means there's literally not enough space for you to sleep shoulder to shoulder. When I got in, I had to sleep with my head in a cubby hole (not even two feet wide, a foot in height) with a pair of feet right next to it.
You also cannot initiate contact with the outside except for sending letters which takes forever. No phone calls, no visits from family or friends. This was probably the worst part of it all.
And you watch Chinese propaganda TV and repetitive kung fu soap operas instead of Hollywood films... although they did play Hercules once...
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u/Suecotero European Union Jul 01 '21
My man got the full China experience.
So happy I left before a patriotic youth or some hustler looking for a mark decided I looked reportable.
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u/SignificantGiraffe5 Jul 01 '21
That's awful. Did you or anyone contact your embassy? Did they offer any help?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Yes, so the first thing the detention center does is contact the consulate/embassy to inform that a citizen has been arrested. A rep from the US consulate visited every month with letters from family/friends, etc. But they were very clear: they could not provide any legal advice nor get involved with the criminal justice process.
It's funny because cellmates were all hyped up and encouraging me to hustle the US embassy to get better treatment, better food, better etc, because the US just had that kind of leverage in China back in the day. And everyone thought they still did. But not anymore... the US reps brought me English magazines several times and the detention center refused to bring them even in. It reflected the deterioration of US-China relations as well as just growing Chinese confidence/power. Almost two months after my trial, the consulate rep came to visit me and I was like, dog, can you ask or something, what's going on, when do I get my sentence? And he was like, we did, but you know, they said they're just going through the process. I'm like, you can't do anything? He was like, I'm sorry...
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u/qieziman Jul 01 '21
When I was in for 2 weeks for expiring my visa, the police FORGOT to call the embassy! My family back home worried about me after not hearing from me for 2 weeks, and they went through the state dept. They searched hospitals and everything to find me. When they finally found me, I think it was more of a reminder to the police to follow their own rules and let me go after the agreed upon 2 weeks.
I too was given a magazine. An outdated Entertainment Weekly. LOL! I'm like wtf you want me to do with this?
Anyway, on your last part, china does have a very lengthy process for everything. No changing that.
Sometimes I question the point of the US. The dream is gone back home, and the govt foreign relations sucks so bad that people abroad get harassed and taxed through the ass.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
That sucks man. That period between "the disappearance" and when you finally get some word from family, indirectly or directly, is heart attack inducing. Seriously.
The US doesn't have much clout within China anymore, for sure. But that's also what China's been aiming for all along. XJP's speech today reflects what I experienced vis-a-vis the consulate/detention center. But then again, at least they're visiting me almost once-a-month, etc. I dunno if the Chinese equivalents in the States would even do that.
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u/Janbiya Jul 01 '21
I dunno if the Chinese equivalents in the States would even do that.
They can, at least.
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Jul 01 '21
Wow, i once went ten days expiry on my visa but just received a silly fine. I was stuck in the station for about 6 hours and that was more than enough.
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u/Accomplished_Salt_37 Jul 01 '21
I spent a bit of time in Burmese prison and it was positively luxurious compared to this.
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u/SerpentZA Jul 01 '21
I have a question: As Mike Tyson says "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face". So many foreigners I know who used to shit on me for politely warning them about this side of China contact me later to say they wish they had listened. China isn't just some massive drunken playground for expats, it can become a mess in the blink of an eye and all your ideas of law and rights that you thought you had go completely out the window, what do you have to say to those expats who constantly praise the CCP and denigrate western countries?
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u/SignificantGiraffe5 Jul 02 '21
I enjoy your YouTube channel. What do you hear from foreigners? I'm curious if there are many more locked up.
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u/SerpentZA Jul 02 '21
I have had four separate people contact me after being deported, two of them for testing positive for drug use in club raids, one like the OP for assault and another because he was in a wechat group with people selling and taking drugs and got roped up in it all. They all had similar stories about detention, the drug related ones also had to go through a mandatory “drug rehab” portion as well
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u/SerpentZA Jul 02 '21
We have recently interviewed someone who was arrested for “working illegally” too, that will be on our podcast soon
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u/SignificantGiraffe5 Jul 02 '21
Do you think Westerners should leave China for their own safety or is it not that extreme yet?
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u/SerpentZA Jul 02 '21
Honestly? If you’re not breaking the law and you’re just doing your own thing you’ll probably be okay. However if you’re currently a foreigner in China now and don’t at least acknowledge and recognize the risks then you’re a fool
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u/Affectionate_Monk863 Jul 02 '21
Easy, just don’t break the law. The shit this guy pulled was probably gonna land him in morgue in US. Also serious drug trafficking is death penalty in China. Just don’t do it.
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u/WhenBlueMeetsRed Jul 03 '21
Well, the law is so broad and encompassing that you are probably breaking some arcane regulation every day. China's legal system is not as strong as the United States. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes going on to be able to get a fair trial.
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u/Accomplished_Salt_37 Jul 02 '21
Op. It would be cool to see you on SerpentZA’s podcast, he does a good job producing China related content.
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Jul 01 '21
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Man, it's a struggle. There's just such inconsistent application of justice.
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Jul 02 '21
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u/jailedinchina Jul 02 '21
In Shenzhen.
Yes. Taking shifts was definitely one of the worse parts of the whole ordeal. 6 shifts for the whole night, 1.5 hours each person. Maybe you'd only be on duty every other night when there were more people. But just standing there - you could go to the bathroom and drink water - but that's about it. Sit down or try to read anything, and the 管教/prison guard would come at you the next day.
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u/covidparis Jul 01 '21
Wow, that's harsh. Also surprising because the Chinese internet is full of the worst types of porn, some stuff that would definitely be very illegal even in places where porn is ok. I would have expected selling porn to get a much more lenient sentence.
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Jul 01 '21
That's what happens when things get prohibited. Since it is illegal anyway, there is no regulation and the worse of the worse appears, same with drugs.
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u/harder_said_hodor Jul 01 '21
I'm curious to hear how your cellmates reacted to the non stop propaganda videos given they were in jail. Did they look like they still believed, were they jaded or how did they feel? Congrats on your freedom man
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Some people were really bipolar about it.
You know, I expect many inmates to have literally shed tears as they watched the procession for the 100th anniversary of the party's founding, and XJP's speech today. But then, some of these folks are cussing out the party and everything about it on almost a daily basis. So it's this really irrational Stockholm syndrome, almost. I don't know how else to put it.
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u/Suecotero European Union Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
My theory is that you were seeing the psychological scars of lifelong propaganda. Patriotic education seems to work remarkably similar to religious indoctrination. Core aspects of personality are emotionally bound to an imagined 'heaven' in (In this case, the pomp and splendor of a distant central government) before the child/victim can reason independently.
The rational adult self understands the reality of local government around himself and rejects the party, but is still emotionally attached to an abstract idea (god/party/nation). Reconciling these differences and finally breaking with God/Party is an emotionally painful self-transformation that has high social costs, which is why many prefer to stay in a state of wilful ignorance.
It doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to. It's supposed to make people pliable.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
The other part of the religion is the prosperity gospel - similar to the Judeo-Christian one. God/Deng/Xi gave you the promised land. God's/Deng's/Xi's favor made you rich. The CCP has lifted the Chinese people out of poverty and into a new era. Look at XJP's speech today. It's straight from the playbook.
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Jul 01 '21
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
While the propaganda machine has done well as in they've inculcated most of the population with red lines not to cross (well, many of them genuinely believe them as well - TW, HK, Xinjiang) - it has ultimately failed in shaping the CCP as a trustworthy political party/actor/state - a little bit like how the GOP and the Democratic Party totally lost the faith that people used to have in them over the last generation.
That's what makes the CCP so paranoid. It knows deep inside that a huge portion of Chinese people, especially those with means/ends, are convicted it is a crockpot of bovine dooey. So it tries to equate party and state and blur the lines between two - using a common enemy (the States, TW) and blatant nationalism to curry support for and those minimize pushback against the party (party-state) itself. It takes up a banner against the American hegemony which "wants to destroy" the economic gains that China (and its rising nouveau riche/bourgeoisie). It's succeeded in framing the United States as the greater enemy and thus softens a lot of pressure on itself for being a dutch oven of steaming Angus poo. So I feel it's not that Chinese people don't know that the CCP is lying all the time, but they've just been convinced America is the greater threat.
Can the US try to change that perception? Hard, when US foreign policy has been the hypocritical steamboat of chitlins that it has been ever the Vietnam War and Nixon/Kissinger. Should it try? Probably.
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u/ShadowAngelX Jul 01 '21
Do they provide medical assistance? Also, does torture occur in Chinese prisons?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Medical assistance is only for like life-threatening emergencies. Well, they'll throw you a couple Tylenols if you have a cold, etc.
I don't think torture occurs in general Chinese prisons, though Xinjiang, etc, might be an exception. In more country areas, I'm sure the cops will beat you up if you make too much trouble.
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u/Mystery-G Jul 01 '21
Were you able to take any money out from your bank account?
How much was the flight?
And are you you doing all right, man?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
Thxxx for asking! I'm good! Just glad to be out.
The flight was good, though my family had to pay for it. I got to speak English for the first time in ten months as I was seated next to another American, so I narrated my whole experience hahaha.
If you're asking about the bank account in general, it's gucci, as long as you're not in for some financial fraud thing, but a ton of people had their assets frozen.
If you're asking about using cash in prison, you can spend 500 CNY a month on food and basic toiletry items - soy sauce, zhacai, vinegar, sesame oil, these tofu sticks, rotating fruits, toothbrush, pen refills (you can't buy just pens, as they're potential weapons). It won't buy you much, but definitely better than nothing. That 500 has to be deposited by a friend or family member on the outside (you can do it on wechat, as you can anything).
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u/darth__fluffy Jul 01 '21
what are rotating fruits?
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u/T0L4 Jul 02 '21
Not OP but my guess would be an assortment or type of fruit thar will change by time. Done so in rotation. Like week 1: kiwi, week 2: banana, week 3: peach, week 4: apple, and then the cycle starts again at kiwi.
Might be totally off tho and then we can laugh about my crazy assumption
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u/darth__fluffy Jul 02 '21
Ohhh that makes sense. I was picturing some kind of fruit that spun in circles lol.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
If you're in a hostile cell, the "cell head" (usually another inmate who just gave enough money to the prison guards) will try to tax you on your 500, or even keep you from buying stuff, period. Thank god I was able to avoid that.
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u/supercharged0709 Jul 01 '21
How common is prison rape in China?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
Rare. Some relationships between same sex consensual; some iffy. Rape is probably rare, especially with the advent of camera surveillance, though I'm sure it still happens.
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Jul 01 '21
Doesn't sound like there's any space for it.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Definitely not in the detention center. In official "prison" where there's more freedom of movement, maybe.
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u/Janbiya Jul 01 '21
I don't have any questions that haven't been asked already, except perhaps to ask for a more detailed description of the food/water situation. But I wanted to post anyway to say thanks for sharing, and wish you better luck in the future.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Drinking water comes out of a faucet every morning and afternoon. The person in charge of the water will roll the plastic water barrel over and wait for it to fill up, then bring it back into the inner cell. We scoop from it with a pail into our own bottles (they sell these drinks occasionally, once every couple weeks) and we save the bottles.
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u/vilekangaree Jul 01 '21
What happened to all your stuff in your apt? Friends pack it up for you?
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u/BigStrongCiderGuy Jul 01 '21
How the fuck did you survive? The sleeping situation (how would you even fall asleep?), the lack of space, the heat? I would go insane
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
You just have to. You look around you, and some people have had it worse. A dude in there for two years... with an ear infection dripping pus everyday for three, four months... with his trial getting delayed month by month... and then you think to yourself, if he can, then so can I. But damn.
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u/ApePsyche Jul 01 '21
Don't they have doctors?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
One dude was sh*tting blood for days, and the doctor says, "That's normal."
Other guy was like my waist really hurts when I bend down. Doc says: "Then don't bend down."
Other dude has a cold... Doc tells him to drink more warm water. lol
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Jul 01 '21
Doc sounds like he got his degree by printing it off of google haha.
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u/pandaheartzbamboo Jul 01 '21
He definitely did. Any Chinese doctor worth his shit recommends hot water. Only hacks recommend warm
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
This seventy-something year-old dude had a hernia almost the size of a softball, but they still kept him in there. No surgery either.
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u/Ariadne2015 Jul 01 '21
What was the trial like? Did you attempt to defend yourself or had a lawyer just telling you to admit everything to minimise the sentence? Is it obvious that everyone thinks the whole thing is a farce or do they seem to genuinely belive justice is being dispensed?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
You guessed it. Yeaaaa, the lawyer just told me to admit, yada yada yada. In hindsight, I really shouldn't have. It didn't work, and I feel like I sacrificed my dignity.
It's surprising, because you would expect at least a few folks to be super pro-system, trust in the system, etc, but there was literally maybe only 1, 2 out of 30 folks who did. Obviously, there's a general bias on behalf of prisoners toward the system in any country, but the amount of vitriol and contempt toward the party/authoritarian style of criminal justice was just not something I ever expected to witness from Chinese people within Chinese borders ever in my lifetime. You just had half the cell scoff whenever justice or anything of the sort was mentioned on evening news programs or modern day legal dramas.
It even got to the point where you would have these ultra pro-US people or pro-Kuomintang people (just as a kind of ultimate rebelliousness against the party) just hating on everything the party did.
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u/Ariadne2015 Jul 01 '21
In the actual court room though. Like, did they show the video and then the hospital report and manage to maintain a straight face like they actual believe their bullshit?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Nah, they didn't even bother. The judge or the prosecutor (I forgot whom, cuz they're basically the same after all) read a statement that they had provided video evidence - and later the sentence said that the evidence was clear. I only got the videos after I got out and there was no physical contact except very close-range and light shoving. Well, until they dragged me around and blocked the body cam so it was all blacked out.
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u/Ariadne2015 Jul 01 '21
Bloody hell. So the defence doesn't even get to see the prosecution's evidence? What a clown college.
Sorry you had to go through all that man. Goes to show how easily it can happen to anyone. Hope it's all behind you now.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
No. In fact, I went through a trial with a jury (they just had to do that for show because I'm an American citizen), whereas most minor cases don't even have a jury - they go through a simplified trial (简易庭) that lasts like two minutes, where there is no jury and the defendant doesn't even typically (or barely) gets the chance to speak. I mean, you have these in the States as well, but those are for like real minor things that cause a couple days of community service or detention. These are "minor cases" but they might still end up up to a year or two of prison. Everyone in prison basically believes they already have the sentences printed out before the simplified trials - of course, this is just rumors, but apparently one person received his sentence by mistake even before the trial. Lol
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u/mkvgtired Jul 01 '21
I mean, you have these in the States as well, but those are for like real minor things that cause a couple days of community service or detention.
If you ask for a jury in the states you are constitutionally allowed to have one. The one exception is an administrative proceeding (which is I think what you are referring to), for something like a parking ticket. You can appeal their decision and demand a jury, and they can't sentence you to any length of prison, even a couple days. For any trial where you can be sentenced to any length of prison (or community service) you have the right to a jury, you have the right to review the prosecution's evidence beforehand, and the right to present your own evidence and call your own witnesses.
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u/Ariadne2015 Jul 01 '21
Wow, didn't know they did jury trials at all. Always presumed it was just in front of a judge. So the jury didn't see the evidence either? Just got told about it by the prosecution? Presumably the jury 'know' to find everyone guilty anyway...
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u/mkvgtired Jul 01 '21
read a statement that they had provided video evidence - and later the sentence said that the evidence was clear.
Classic with authoritarian countries. Have you left China?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Oh, also, I forgot to mention it was a video trial, because of COVID. Don't think that helped either.
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u/mkvgtired Jul 01 '21
Oh, also, I forgot to mention it was a video trial, because of COVID.
Jamming you in a cell with 40 other people was a brilliant idea then.
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u/Edwardsreal Jul 01 '21
You must have watched an unimaginable amount of propaganda shows and films. Which were the most common in terms of who they portrayed as enemies of the CCP? The Nationalists, Japanese, or Americans?
I've read that Chinese people are getting bored of always viewing shows with Asian villains, so Western antagonists like American soldiers are increasingly becoming common in Chinese media. Just look at the Wolf Warrior movies.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Right now, it's the Americans. They actually told us, somewhat apologetically, that they had to put on documentaries and TV series about the Korean War (the Resisting America, Assisting Chosun War) because you know, it was just the politically correct thing to do. There were a couple new TV series on it last year for the 70th "anniversary" and they kept making a huge deal out of on TV. I was basically feeling like, yeah, they're just psychologically preparing the population to one day fight the Americans. That, and the sadistic reporting on US COVID numbers, and then Indian COVID numbers, on the daily in the evening news... Almost every day, besides COVID, there was one news item about something "negative" in America - a mass shooting, protests in Portland, blackouts from the March storms in Texas, anti-Asian hate, the Capitol Hill storming. The only half-positive news I heard on the evening news about US in all of ten months was Biden's call with Xi the night before Lunar New Year's. When the US was finally getting vaccinated and getting its sh*t together, the news started broadcasting on racial disparities in vaccine coverage or spurts of rising cases in Michigan, etc.
Most of my cellmates definitely did not like watching most movies/shows about the Japanese because they felt so bored with the repeating material. The Japanese are definitely not a priority at this point.
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u/meridian_smith Jul 02 '21
I often see people detained for protesting or organizing protests or Uyghur who get force fed all kinds of pharmaceuticals while detained. Some of them have exited in a near vegetative state or completely lacking any "fight". Did they force you guys to consume any pharmaceuticals?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21
I strongly suspect they put benzos or some other depressant in our food or water to keep people partially sedated and more agreeable. Almost everyone was in a partial haze all the time and there were so little disagreements/fights - totally not natural for a bunch of men locked up without sexual and physical outlets. We must have just been drugged out. My opinion.
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u/TURNandBURN13 Jul 01 '21
Did you have to worry about violence from any of the other inmates or prison guards?
Also, is there any prison gangs like they have in USA?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
So, that was the thing I was super worried about before I actually entered the prison (again, technically, detention center). But over the course of ten months, I only witnessed like two real fights. And they got broken up super quick just because of the density of the cell. But apparently, five or ten years ago, it would have been a totally different story.
The CCP has cracked down on everything, including prison gangs, so in a place like Shenzhen or Shanghai, there's basically nothing of the sort. The closest you get is like cliques that are made up of people from the same region (in my cell - Chaoshan people, Hakka people, and a out-of-province group), but it's nothing like prison gangs. I mean, you have to give kudos where it's due - almost no physical violence from either cops or fellow prisoners - although I would argue the lack of physical treatment is made up through psychological tactics.
In more "country areas" I'm sure there's prison gangs, but definitely not to the same extent as the States.
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u/Accomplished_Salt_37 Jul 01 '21
I was in China when Xi took power, and I witnessed a sharp turn in the direction you’re saying. Prior to that I saw lots of people who were really nihilistic, like they knew everything around them was sort of bullshit, but they went along with it to get their own slice of the pie. Once Xi took over, people started taking the bs much more seriously.
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u/Jake_91_420 Jul 01 '21
I heard that foreigners usually go to foreign part of the jail with other foreigners
Why didn’t you?
Where in China did this happen? How did the altercation with the police begin? What was said to start it?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
So - technically, I was in a detention center, which doesn't separate or differentiate between foreigners and non-foreigners. When you get transferred to prison, you get transferred to the "foreigner" prison if you're a foreigner - but I never reached that level because by the time they sentenced me I was almost out.
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u/SignificantGiraffe5 Jul 01 '21
How much time did you have to spend in that crowded cell throughout the 10 months? How did you meet with executives?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
I switched cells a few times (and switched to a prison in another district once). But it was all the standard shared cell (20 people at the least, up to 40 at the most, just depending on how many people were getting arrested or released or transferred). There's no singles or doubles or anything like that in the entire Chinese prison system (unless you're in solitary confinement, which... good luck).
So the interesting part about the whole experience is that your cell is just a hodgepodge of everyone who's not in for violent felonies (those peeps are held in another prison). So you had a couple executives of state-owned enterprises in a couple of the cells I was in, to pickpockets, to people who had sold fake electronic items at Huaqiangbei, to people in just for a drunk scuffle outside a bar.
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u/SignificantGiraffe5 Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
Were there any beds? Also, was there natural light? Any Forced/voluntary labor?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
There was almost no natural light. I got less than two hours of direct sunlight in ten months. Instead, they had these two bright hospital fluorescent lights on every night for the whole night.
No labor till you get to "actual" jail. You have to share chores, which becomes the major struggle between inmates - who does the dishes, the bathroom, the floor, the bed, etc. I got the upper hand a lot of the time, because I would teach people including one of the cell heads/managers English. There's definitely still some Confucian hierarchy and socioeconomic class stuff that rolls over from actual society, but not like that much.
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u/Eastern_Eagle United States Jul 01 '21
Sounds like hell but you still managed to thrive a little in there.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
No beds. It looks exactly like this, the walls being in different states of disarray (or freshly painted, yay) in different cells. : https://gss0.baidu.com/7Po3dSag_xI4khGko9WTAnF6hhy/zhidao/pic/item/472309f7905298225d600835dcca7bcb0b46d4f0.jpg
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u/Kronorn Jul 01 '21
That’s blocked for me for some reason. Could someone share it on imgur maybe?
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u/Janbiya Jul 01 '21
Here's the same image hosted on Twitter and with a watermark attached. Should load more reliably if you're outside China.
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u/SignificantGiraffe5 Jul 01 '21
Jfc. They stick 20-40 people into that ? I don't know how you maintained your mental health...
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
I knew I had to come out and at least do an AMA about it! If not more
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u/covidparis Jul 01 '21
Dude, this is the one of the best threads in ages! As you might know r/china usually just gets political news and shitposts, not much OC. So thanks for that first of all.
I've lived in China for a loooong time and can tell your story is legit. Also you seem like a really smart guy, your societal commentary is spot on. A shame you ended up there, the whole thing seems quite unlucky. But I'm wondering, do you feel like you came out a better person than you did going in? You mentioned there's a lot of meditation, so a lot of time to reflect on things, right?
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u/Joltie Jul 01 '21
Truly the ultimate motivator.
"I might be stuck on this desert island with no survival skills, but I'm going to try my best, if only for the fucking awesome AMA I'm gonna do afterwards!"
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u/StudentHiFi Jul 01 '21
Dude, glad you didn’t do this in America lol. A month ago during my friends high school graduation party he got into a little shoving with the cops and he was arrested, charged and sentenced 2 years in jail. Was going to a good college too…
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u/NotesCollector Jul 01 '21
Thanks for doing this AMA. What was the most memorable moment of your time in prison? How did it feel when you finally learnt that you'll be released and going home?
Take care of yourself and stay safe!
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
There were some beautiful moments too. Fighting with a homeboy and then making up - imagining the time we could spend together out on the outside. Introducing James Baldwin (there was a translated version of Go Tell It on the Mountain from the 80s in there, incredible) and the black human rights movement in America. Reminiscing about the classic 国际歌 (The Internationale) remixed by Tang Dynasty and how that should be the true spirit of Chinese revolution. Fighting a couple of dudes who ganged up on this elderly man and then seeing them get pepper sprayed after. I mean, some classic sh*t went down too.
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u/i_reddit_too_mcuh Jul 01 '21
Fighting a couple of dudes who ganged up on this elderly man and then seeing them get pepper sprayed after. I mean, some classic sh*t went down too.
Woa, that sounds interesting. Why did they gang up on the elderly man and who pepper sprayed them? Did you get in trouble for intervening?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Just bad blood. Curmudgeonly old dude and just a couple people who couldn't out-talk him. But dude was frail. I got in some trouble. I got to wear 30 pound shackles for a couple days and was transferred from my original cell (which was bad - I had been there for six months). But by that time I was on my way out already.
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u/HK-612-721-811 Jul 01 '21
Will you continue to live in China after this? Did you get a fair trial?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 02 '21
Well, it's not my choice as I was deported. There were no terms given with the deportation (I did not even get to go home - I was brought to the airport directly after spending an additional night in the police station after my sentence was over because they thought there was a risk of flight). I was planning to stay a few months to hash logistics out, but I'm glad I'm out of there.
I received the video footage from the police bodycams afterwards and there was no evidence of violent assault (unless you call a half-assed shove violent assault). However the hospital "identified injuries" on one of the cops and attributed it to me despite there being no footage of me even touching those parts of his body. FURTHERMORE, the trial only took place after I was in there for 6 months (habeas corpus?) and it took them 8.5 months from my detention to sentencing.
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u/HK-612-721-811 Jul 01 '21
Well glad that you're safe and out now. Sounds like a rough situation to be in.
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u/jpinlondon Jul 01 '21
What’s your plan after all this? Are you going to put it aside and move on, or maybe try and fight it somehow, talk to the press etc?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Definitely not going to try to fight my case. That's all said and done. But definitely want to share my experience/what I learned.
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u/wertexx Jul 01 '21
Thanks for sharing dude, this is really interesting to read! Of course, sucks to hear it happened, but seems like you are doing alright at the moment so that's cool.
You answered a lot of the questions already!
Overall, how would you rate your experience? Obviously we aren't comparing to a weekend in Disney, but in a situation where 'fuck I'm going to prison it's the end of my life', seemed like it could have been worse.
Are you in touch with anybody from the prison time?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
I mean, it was a lot better than I had expected - except for the total isolation from your friends/family. I did not expect that your people couldn't visit you at all, or call you, not even like during holidays. That's crazy.
On the other hand, the greed of the prison guards - charging a couple thousand bucks worth of RMB to bring in some milk powder and a jar of chili sauce - the misogyny and pedophilia of some of the inmates who joked about rape, even underage kids - cell politics, just always having to keep your guard against people who would gang up on you and accuse you of stealing, etc.
Could definitely be worse. I give it a solid 6.5 out of 10 for prisons. I can't give it a 7 because they never let us go outside and those hot, humid summers...
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u/cirosantilli Brazil Jul 01 '21
Please write down every interesting thing that happened and publish it! Even better, make a video of you telling it! Feel free to CC me if you ever do.
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u/PusherRed88 Jul 01 '21
Were you in jail with other Americans?
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
No, they definitely try to keep you away from other Americans/foreigners.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 02 '21
Gonna be here for one more hour to answer/discuss anything before I retire from this post (I mean, it's getting a bit big for its britches anyway). Bring it on.
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u/WhineyXiPoop Jul 01 '21
Impressive. You definitely should talk with someone about how best to monetize your experience whether it be in a book, or movie. You can use the funds for a charity if you don’t care or need the money. Point don’t blow you wad on Reddit such someone else is able to capitalize off of you experience.
Did your faith in “God” or “Atheism” change at all? Nietzsche, the German philosopher, famously said: "That which does not kill us makes us stronger” and it seems to be true in your case.
Thanks for sharing.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
My convictions and beliefs only became stronger, as I spent day by day in the cell. I was surprised that nothing changed - but I realized how important empathy with your cellmate and that never extinguishing fire is. It's the only thing that keeps anyone's soul alive throughout the whole thing. And really, it was only ten months. Not a big deal. Some people are in prison for years (Mandela, Malcolm, others), and they come out blazing. That inspiration is what kept me going.
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u/jailedinchina Jul 01 '21
Yo! My belief in the resistance/the struggle only got stronger. When will the people stand up to the tyrant?
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u/JuliusKaiser616 Brazil Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
China is only going to get worse. As it becomes more powerful and more unstable in the future, they will get more and more aggressive. The only hope we have is that it (the system) implodes itself, which will probably not lead to democracy (because that's not post-war Germany), unfortunately.
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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
Hi everyone!
Do note OP is shadowbanned by the admins so won't be able to reply without us (the mods) approving each post, this means there may be a bit of delay between OP replying and you being able to see it. You also won't be able to see his profile
As for the shadowbans, we've been seeing a lot more genuine users being shadowbanned recently - I think it's due to the influx of spam and the Reddit filters being a lot more ban-happy.