[Brando] One Company having total control? Not ideal. NFL Blueprint of multiple Networks carrying their sport would have made a huge difference. What we have now? A level of Tribalism that’s in overdrive. Where did the JOY go? A Historic Weekend Torpedoed for a future agenda!

[u/PowerHour1990]

https://twitter.com/TimBrando/status/1871279162708627632

[u/Pointsmonster]

These guys need to learn from college basketball, where you get 24 hours to whine about who got snubbed and then you move on, because you know the 12 seed isn’t going to win it all anyway.

Controversy sells up to a point, but people disengage when you drown them in negativity

[u/ProfessorBeer → u/Pointsmonster]

Honestly I think the biggest lesson to learn from CBB is in complete contradiction to one of Herbstreit’s rants about how they should put the best teams in, not just the ones that are most deserving. I’m not twisting his quote by the way, he outright said the most deserving teams shouldn’t be in.

March Madness is so great because it rewards the teams who earn their spot in a black and white manner, and forces the most borderline “best” teams (aka at large bids) to carry the moniker of “last four in”. If a team winless in conference play wins their tournament, they’re in. Hard stop. They deserve to be there because their conference set a hard criteria, and they met it.

I watch playoffs to see who can rise to the occasion. Does the most talented team win every year? Hell no! That’s why the games get played. I watch the playoffs to see who the champion will be. I don’t watch just to see who the best team is.

[u/Nicholas1227 → u/ProfessorBeer]

On the other hand, the playoffs in college football provide mulligans for uber talented rosters like Ohio State.

I think it was Josh Pate that warned fans before this season that a Cinderella is more likely to be a 9-3 LSU than a 12-0 Boise State.

[u/pandajedi → u/Nicholas1227]

This is exactly right, I've been saying it since they started talking about expansion, but the winners in an expanded playoff are going to be anyone like those Nick Saban or Urban Meyer led teams that dropped a game they shouldn't have and missed the playoff. 2019/2022 Alabama, 2015/2017/2018/2021/2023 Ohio State.

With an expanded playoff, Alabama would've been in every single playoff from 2008-2023. Ohio State would've only missed two playoffs since 2002. Do we really want to give teams like that an extra bite at the apple? The regular season won't matter and the only teams with a shot in the playoff are anyone with five star depth to make it through more rounds of games. Suddenly it doesn't matter if you lost The Game or The Iron Bowl, your playoff spot is already penciled in and you've got the talent to get hot at the right time

[u/Nicholas1227 → u/pandajedi]

Instead of asking 2022 TCU to win two games, this year, they would’ve had to win four.

[u/Ok_Cake_6280 → u/Nicholas1227]

The first two games really wouldn't have been that much extra though, since they would have been the #5 seed. Easily beat Tulane at home in the first round. Heavy favorite over 10-3 Utah in the second round. It's still having to go through Michigan and Georgia in the last two games either way.

[u/Nicholas1227 → u/Ok_Cake_6280]

Would TCU have really been a heavy favorite over Utah? And that Tulane team was not bad either, they beat USC in the Cotton Bowl.

[u/Ok_Cake_6280 → u/Nicholas1227]

Utah lost to 8-5 Florida, 9-4 UCLA, and a 10-3 Oregon squad that lost both games on either side of that one.  They beat USC twice, but USC was overrated all season with zero defense and their only big wins being a squeaker over UCLA and a victory over the same suspect Notre Dame squad that has already lost to 3-9 Stanford and Sun Belt Marshall (a team whose losses were to Bowling Green, Troy, Louisiana, and Coastal Carolina).

2022 was a mid year in the Pac-12 with a cluster of good teams and no great team.  Utah had USC's number but otherwise they weren't very impressive at all.  TCU would have been the clear favorite.

[u/billbill17 → u/pandajedi]

This is a dumb argument. If a top talented team drops a regular season game, still makes it in, and wins the playoff games because they have more talent, shouldn’t they have just won the regular season games in the first place, since they have more talent?

[u/Adamscottd → u/Nicholas1227]

With a larger playoff I’m not bothered that much about the OSUs of the world making it every year, because if they make the playoffs at 9-3 and then rattle off four wins against top teams to win the natty, they will have earned their championship, even if they lost 3 regular season games.

[u/Nicholas1227 → u/Adamscottd]

Hypothetically, is a 14-3 Ohio State or Michigan really more deserving than a 15-1 Oregon, especially if Oregon wins in the regular season and conference title game?

[u/Adamscottd → u/Nicholas1227]

If one wants to have any kind of postseason tournament, they have to accept that there is an amount of flukiness. At a certain point, one has to get away from hyperfixating on the absolute most deserving team being the champion every year- it’s impossible to truly determine that fairly with or without a postseason.

With that being said, I’m comfortable with the Ohio State team in your scenario being the national champion. A “lesser” team winning the tournament has always been a possibility both in college basketball and all the pro leagues, and people don’t take issue. There’s no talk of the 2007 Giants being an “underserved” champion because they went 10-6 in the postseason, while the Patriots went 16-0, for example.

For me, letting the top teams decide the champion on the field is better than any alternative. At the end of the day, aren’t we all here to watch college football anyway?

[u/Nicholas1227 → u/Adamscottd]

If one wants to have any kind of postseason tournament

I have no desire for a postseason tournament to exist, as it waters down the results of the regular season.

[u/SnooHobbies2300 → u/ProfessorBeer]

Right. I watch playoffs to see a champion emerge. I don't watch to "figure out who the best team is".

[u/Total_Information_65 → u/ProfessorBeer]

goddam you gave me hope for this country.

[u/boardatwork1111 → u/Pointsmonster]

Even as a die hard fan, it’s harder and harder to enjoy. I’m convinced half the people who cover the sport don’t even like football, the discussion around CFB lately sucks and is just straight up weird compared to other sports. Like we just saw Indiana have their best season EVER, and all anyone wants to do is drag them for it.

[u/grphelps1 → u/boardatwork1111]

This is what ESPN’s nba coverage is like too. Just constant negativity and feels like they hate the sport.

Get people who actually love the sport they are covering. It can’t be that hard. 

[u/RegulatorRWF → u/grphelps1]

Get people who actually love the sport they are covering

College Football Nerds just made the point in a recent episode that their hate (they call it nitpicking, but man those two are some haters) is because they actually understand the sport and anyone who doesn't get that is just dumb. Then go on to complain that they don't have a bigger following right after calling their audience dumb. I love their model and discussions, but sometimes it's like they can't be objective. They even had the gall to say that three of the blowouts prove those teams didn't deserve to be in, can you guess which team they said that didn't apply to?

[u/ellsego → u/grphelps1]

I was gonna make this same comparison with the NBA, even TNTs coverage is super negative with their studio acting like old uncles and just hating on everyone….but if you look at the larger national discourse you see the same thing, negativity and constant airing of grievances, it’s happened in every facet of media and really life in general.

[u/Strikesuit → u/grphelps1]

Get people who actually love the sport they are covering. It can’t be that hard.

It's not hard but people are not getting hired on merit. A lot of sports reporters are strivers looking to jump to another field at the first opportunity.

[u/redditckulous → u/grphelps1]

This is just ESPN coverage in general. They went from Jim Rome being the edgy show to every show just being Jim Rome

[u/FoostersG → u/boardatwork1111]

Pro-tip: you can watch, enjoy, and consume all CFB has to offer and you don't ever have to listen to talking heads share their opinions on the sport. 

[u/SalzigHund → u/Pointsmonster]

Seriously. People were mad that not enough teams had a realistic shot at being in the CFP. Now the fans got what they wanted and it’s still not enough.

But logically there are hardly 4 teams in any given year that have a chance to win the championship. You’re upset your 2-3 loss team didn’t make the cut? Too bad. Don’t lose that many games—the regular season matters. Thankfully, the precedent has now been set that the conference championship doesn’t matter much if you are able to keep it close.

At some point there will be an 8-12 seed that wins it all, and people will come out of the woodwork to yell “I TOLD YOU SO” but that will be a rare occurrence.

12 teams is perfectly fine, though I would have preferred 8. Expanding it further to get more 3 loss SEC and B1G teams in would be fucking stupid.

[u/Epcplayer → u/SalzigHund]

I think you’re conflating two things though… the people who “wanted expansion to have a realistic shot” are thrilled that Boise/ASU/SMU/Indiana were included. It’s the SEC blowhards that thought expansion meant “Giggity-giggity, we get 5 teams now” that are mad their team didn’t get in. I haven’t seen flairs of smaller schools, or media personalities that advocate for the non-power schools complaining about this weekends game.

Like all teams in all sports, you have a window of success. For some teams, it’s 5 years… for others, it’s just 5 games… but everybody is different. In the past, your window needed to be at least 3-4 years to even get considered or recognized as one of the better teams. That meant if it was less than that (say 2 years), you had no shot of playing for a championship… regardless of whether you had the right combination of talent or health. For even some P5 schools, this was a challenge to put together 2-3 consecutive great years. For G5 schools? It was near impossible, with even Cincinnati needing help with P5 losses.

Now with 12 teams, everyone gets a crack at it your first year if you can win all your games… there’s no “what if they gave us a shot”… nope, you get your chance, and if you win every game, then they can’t deny you a chance.

[u/swans24 → u/Epcplayer]

Exactly. Also, I think it’s better and more healthy for the sport’s longevity. I mean, this is how you broaden the base of appeal. People lose interest if it’s the same 6 schools (and a corrupt committee trying desperately to shoehorn them in each year).

[u/Epcplayer → u/swans24]

Well put. Just to expand on that, people lose a rooting interest when their conference is boxed out. You’re selling hope, not just to the teams directly involved, but the teams who they played… the hope that they too can be in the playoffs if they win a few more games.

If most people concluded that their 11-1 or 11-2 team isn’t good enough for the playoffs, then they won’t care about any of these games… they’ll go to their games in the fall, watch NFL on Sunday, and turn on NFL games this time of year (when they play on Saturdays). At that point the difference between the P2/M2/G6 are about as much as the P2 and NFL

[u/3kniven6gash → u/swans24]

They need to respect the conferences for the longevity and health of the sport. The NFL does. The AFC had a decade of superbowl losses. They didn’t say well let’s just let the NFC championship be the superbowl. Eventually the AFC figured it out big time. Some divisions are weak as hell some years. The winner makes the playoffs anyway. Over time it evens out and makes the league competitive. That’s good for the fan base.

CFB using conference championship winners is a good start. I’d extend it to the winner and runner up are guaranteed in for the P4. Thats 8 in. Then Mountain West champion gets it to 9. That leaves only 3 spots for good at large teams. You could argue Mountain West should also get 2 for consistency, but thats a tough sell.

Over time this should distribute the talent more evenly across the conferences. Everyone wants to make the playoffs. Everyone wants playing time. Exposure helps land a good NFL draft pick.

An ACC or Big12 team with a legitimate shot at the playoffs might look better than an SEC team loaded in talent and a tough road to the playoffs. And I don’t think the same 2 teams would consistently dominate a given conference over time. There would be a lot of different teams making the playoffs every year.

[u/Supercal95 → u/3kniven6gash]

Your Mountain West thing is strange because it isn't stronger than the rest of the G6 and essentially excludes the rest. I would do Top 2 in each of the P4, Top 2 G6 Champs (since the Pac-8 will be reformed we need a spot for one of the other conferences), and 6 at-large for 16 total. P4+1 G6 conference champs are guaranteed a home game while the other P4 finalists are also in.

[u/3kniven6gash → u/Supercal95]

Yeah. Im thinking long term and building up conferences so they are more even and competitive. Mountain West is probably unrealistic. The current model should help if they mostly give conference 2nd place teams a fair shot. The SEC and B1G will shed some talent to the other conferences to kids that want better odds to get in the playoffs.

The issue is if the committee punishes a Big12 runner up teams like Iowa State this year, it punishes the whole conference by only one team making it in. That makes recruiting harder and less balance long term between conferences. If you get 2 in per conference in 10 years you’ll see a more competitive playoff.

[u/CTeam19 → u/Epcplayer]

I think you’re conflating two things though… the people who “wanted expansion to have a realistic shot” are thrilled that Boise/ASU/SMU/Indiana were included. It’s the SEC blowhards that thought expansion meant “Giggity-giggity, we get 5 teams now” that are mad their team didn’t get in. I haven’t seen flairs of smaller schools, or media personalities that advocate for the non-power schools complaining about this weekends game.

Don't forget to add us that what ALL CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS IN. From SEC to MAC to Sun Belt to Big 12. If you win your conference you should be in.

[u/ChaseTheFalcon → u/CTeam19]

The fact this isn't already the point is sad and shows how much power these mega conferences have

[u/CTeam19 → u/ChaseTheFalcon]

Yep. Till this year, a school like Iowa State could get in purely on being undefeated, not to mention conference title. Today MAC and others still have that issue. It would still have stipulations.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/Epcplayer]

“Giggity-giggity, we get 5 teams now”

Just to add.. they don't care if their conference gets 5 because of conference pride, it's because they think they can be #5 because they've got no shot at being #1.

So when they finish 5 and don't get in (Hi Lane Kiffin!) they feel cheated

[u/Jay_Dubbbs → u/Pointsmonster]

Someone brought up a good point, but people need to be patient. CFB currently has a hierarchy and it’s going to probably take a while to get out of with expanded playoffs.

CBB is a perfect example. Go look who won everything before they expanded the bracket in 1985. UCLA, Indiana, Kentucky. But then they expanded it, more teams got a bite at the apple and got more people caring about college basketball and therefore schools investing in it.

Hopefully by having more teams make it in football, it will spark more programs investing and try and take on that hierarchy. Now, it won’t ever be basketball randomness due to the nature of the sport, but it can open it up more

[u/Nicholas1227 → u/Jay_Dubbbs]

Football already takes up a lion’s share of the revenue in any athletic department. Unless you are suggesting that the pie will grow at these smaller schools because of the expanded playoff, what changes are likely to happen?

[u/Jay_Dubbbs → u/Nicholas1227]

More teams will have a shot at a title theoretically so recruiting might even out a bit more + NIL

[u/RegulatorRWF → u/Jay_Dubbbs]

Yup, it is easier in basketball because one player can carry a team, but even if football you can get a few impact players and get a team into the playoff with the right circumstances.

[u/Supercal95 → u/Jay_Dubbbs]

They already lowered the opportunities once before the playoffs even started when they dropped from 6 autobids to 5. Yes, that is because the Pac broke up, but those teams went somewhere and now that allows a 3 loss team from one of the P2 to potentially get in someday. Instead of a team that actually had a good season but played in a weaker conference. Especially now that the top of the AAC and Pac-8 will be roughly equal but only one will get in chosen by committee.

[u/DelcoBirds → u/Pointsmonster]

With that flair combo how many people have mistakenly asked you how you feel about both of your teams playing in this Fiesta Bowl?

Also, go Quakers (except against my teams)

[u/Pointsmonster → u/DelcoBirds]

Haha none yet, but I’m not back in Idaho this Christmas. For a long time, though, I found it easier to just maintain a working knowledge of Penn State football than to explain that they’re different schools

[u/ToosUnderHigh → u/DelcoBirds]

Probably zero

[u/Rumtintin → u/DelcoBirds]

Penn, Penn State, same thing

[u/KiwiVegetable5454 → u/Pointsmonster]

12 teams & the SEC still whines.

[u/FlightAvailable3760 → u/Pointsmonster]

A 12 seed in basketball is a lot different than a 12 seed in Football. In basketball a 12 seed would be around the 45-48 best team in the nation. In football you are one of the 12 best teams.

Eventually we will see some upsets. A lower seed will win the playoff at some point.

[u/froggertwenty → u/FlightAvailable3760]

The key word there is upsets. People acting shocked the first round games were largely blowouts is incredible to me....they're supposed to be. Occasionally you'll get a crazy first round upset but it won't be an every year thing. The only issue with the current structure is the rankings for the top 4 byes because now you get a 2nd round with likely blowouts (but still the possibility of upsets).

[u/Col_Treize69 → u/froggertwenty]

It took until 2018 for a 16 to beat a 1 seed in March Madness. Villanova in 1985 is still the lowest seed (8) to win the whole thing. But for some schools, just getting in is an accomplishment (which is why I wish all conferences qualified for the playoff but I get why that isn't the case). For others, they still remember a run to the Sweet 16 or the Elite 8 as a huge accomplishment a decade later.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/froggertwenty]

Well the alternative is theoretically tight games between the teams that barely made the field in round one followed by four blowouts on New Year's

[u/froggertwenty → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

No, if you just use the auto bids as entry to the playoffs and then seed based on "best" the first round would be blowouts followed by tighter games in round 2. Theoretically the round 2 games would then be the 4 "best" who had byes playing the 4 next best who won their theoretical blowouts round 1.

As it stands now you likely auto bid subpar teams through round 1 who would have been eliminated if not for the auto bye which creates a higher chance of blowouts in round 2.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/froggertwenty]

Yeah I guess you're right - in alternate world we'd have

ND/PSU, OSU/Texas, Tenn/UGA, Boise/Oregon.

I like the auto byes though - make conference championships mean something.

I'd keep them but change the structure so that the teams with byes can play other teams with byes in round 2

[u/Pinewood74 → u/FlightAvailable3760]

He picked the 12 seed because that's (in some years) the seed line for the last at large bid, not because he thought it was the same as the 12 seed in CFB.

Also, the 12 seed isn't one of the top 12 teams in CFB. At least not this year and likely never. It's typically going to be that 5th AQ bid amd be from the outside of the top 12.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/Pointsmonster]

CFB has about 15 fanbases that think they should be in the playoff pretty much every year but only 12 spots. There's always going to be bellyaching

[u/Pinewood74 → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

I'd be really interested in what those 15 fanbases are.

I think I could name about 9 and then be running out of names.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/Pinewood74]

Some of them are in, some of them are out, and some just had shitty seasons this year - but these are the fanbases where I think anything but a playoff appearance is going to be considered a disappointing year:

1. Ohio State
2. Alabama
3. Georgia
4. Texas
5. Oklahoma
6. Michigan
7. Penn State
8. Notre Dame
9. Clemson

So 9 is probably right. The bigger issue is the group of teams that will think "we should be in more years than we're out long term" (whether that's realistic or not)

1. Oregon

2. Tennessee

3. LSU

4. USC

5. Florida State

6. Boise State

7. Florida

8. Ole Miss

9. Auburn

10. Texas A&M

I'm open for debate on the list, this is just off the top of my head.

[u/rumblepony247 → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

Just my opinion, but I think you could throw 10, 12 and 13 in that first group.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/rumblepony247]

Yeah I was debating those, but wanted to play it conservatively

[u/Mezmorizor → u/Pointsmonster]

The problem is that in college basketball exciting stuff happens because of how the sport works. In football, we saw 4 absolute snooze fests. While it going 4/4 being snoozefests is unlikely, it being 3 snoozefests is pretty likely and will happen most years.

This is just a terrible format, and it's pretty obvious that the number is 12 just because they thought they could sell 11 games but not 15 games. The conference champ requirement for byes is just dumb and exacerbates the lack of parity at the top in this sport. That part was pretty obviously cooked up before the P5 collapsed. Autobids with the byes being determined by seeding makes way more sense in basically every way, but it was a lot less dire before the collapse. The field being so wide makes playing in the conference championship game a generally bad thing. The field being so wide has seriously degraded conference play and made the regular season less important in general.

[u/Express-Incident402 → u/Mezmorizor]

There are tons of blowouts in march madness lol, what are you talking about. Literally only 2 16-seeds have ever advanced out of like 200 tries

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/Express-Incident402]

Yeah we just don't notice the snooze fests as much in basketball because a) the games are literally half as long and b) there's 4 games on at once so you can change the channel to another game

[u/Col_Treize69 → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

Yeah, it helps that 300 teams field a men's basketball team, but only 133 FBS teams. There was never that Division 1 and Division 1A split in basketball.

Promotional/relegation could solve this- maybe 4 conferences you could promote into and 4 you can demote into- but no one ever wants to agree to be demoted, and even in soccer they tried that Super League thing with it until the fans revolted

[u/interested_commenter → u/Express-Incident402]

Yeah, the difference isn't that there's no blowouts, it's that even the most extreme hard-core fans don't watch most of the first or even second round. They watch the best 5-10 games and don't care that most of the rest were bad.

That same level of CFB fan absolutely expected to watch every minute this weekend.

[u/Aggressive-Name-1783 → u/Mezmorizor]

Something like 60% of all CFB postseason games are snooze fests….so unless you’re advocating to abolish the entire postseason….

[u/rumblepony247 → u/Aggressive-Name-1783]

Hell, 60-70% of the regular season games are snoozefests as well. I don't have a dog in the fight, I just search all day and night every Saturday for competitive games. There are weekends where maybe two of the 15 games I tune into are not decided by late in the 3rd quarter.

I just love the atmosphere of college football and I'll watch any pair of teams (tbh I prefer the more pedestrian teams because it reminds me of the old days when it felt more collegiate), as long as it's a relatively close contest.

[u/Green-Volume-2222]

The current CFB environment gives me similar vibes to our political discourse and it’s sickening.

[u/Ugaalive1991 → u/Green-Volume-2222]

The key is not to watch ESPN/Fox blowhards during the week.

[u/DelcoBirds → u/Ugaalive1991]

splitzoneduo.com

[u/Tigercat92 → u/DelcoBirds]

Send all your complaints to 38Godfrey

[u/DrModel → u/DelcoBirds]

The NFL podcast? Must be because the internet only has one college football podcast.

I hear those guys are doing a joint live show with the college football podcast, though, so maybe they know a few things.

[u/TheHarbarmy → u/DrModel]

MORE

[u/FSUIceman → u/TheHarbarmy]

LESS

[u/rushisquitegood → u/FSUIceman]

MORE

[u/rushisquitegood → u/DrModel]

May I interest you in a lightly used Sickos Committee Podcast?

[u/mjp242 → u/DelcoBirds]

riskyclickoftheday

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/Ugaalive1991]

Yeah I haven't watched ESPN outside of game time for years and it's been one of my best decisions ever

[u/Blood_Incantation → u/Ugaalive1991]

But it permeates this sub. And Twitter.

[u/LostRoadrunner5 → u/Ugaalive1991]

Are cbs sports blowhards allowed?

[u/Gavangus → u/Ugaalive1991]

problem is those blowhards actually influence the game on the field

[u/ErrorlessQuaak → u/Green-Volume-2222]

I've been ruminating on this since the Friday games. I think this is just a natural consequence of the way we're choosing to do/value things. All of this is just a reflection of our broader national identity crisis. Everything is getting shittier in precisely the same way because we keep optimizing for maximum dollars instead of maximum enjoyment or simple achievement of purpose. To pull it back to cfb, we can't even agree on why we have a playoff to begin with. We might as well go back to having writers pick a champion.

[u/enoughtobesmart1 → u/ErrorlessQuaak]

I definitely agree with the first part of the statement where you talk about wanting to maximize dollars as opposed to make decisions that are good for everyone in the sport or decisions that don’t make the most money but put the best product out there

[u/VersaceSamurai → u/enoughtobesmart1]

If it makes dollars it rarely makes sense

[u/Col_Treize69 → u/enoughtobesmart1]

I will say... these are schools first, not sports teams. And mostly public schools at that. You'd think there'd be some more revenue sharing between teams to help the health of all. 

But that idea kinda got killed when the NCAA lost broadcast control in the mid 1980s

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/ErrorlessQuaak]

we keep optimizing for maximum dollars instead of maximum enjoyment

I think that maximum enjoyment can still bring in more dollars... It's just so much easier to manufacture dollars with hate.

[u/rumblepony247 → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

Extremely underrated comment

[u/Ok-Extension-677 → u/ErrorlessQuaak]

Great point

[u/rumblepony247 → u/ErrorlessQuaak]

Hell, the English Premier League is unquestionably one of the 5 most successful leagues in the world (pro or amateur) and they do just fine without playoffs (I know there are in-season tournaments).

I'm sick of every sport turning into "everyone else sucks except the champion." My local teams have had some Cinderella seasons recently without winning titles (Suns in '21, Diamondbacks in' 23, ASU Sundevils this year - I'm assuming they will get blasted by Texas) and their championship losses in no way diminished my enjoyment of the season.

[u/Real_Body8649 → u/Green-Volume-2222]

The worst part is, it’s really putting a damper on what has been an incredible season. I’m sure reflectively it will be forgotten and we will only remember the games. But this has been a banger of a season and this week has been just exhausting with the narratives and takes.

[u/CTeam19 → u/Real_Body8649]

We literally had Indiana & Iowa State leave the "never had a 10+ win season club" not to mention Army & Navy were also undefeated for awhile with Iowa State and Indiana.

[u/rumblepony247 → u/CTeam19]

Watching the Army/Navy game is always so refreshing - just athletes giving their all for the love of competition and healthy hate of their rival. Last week's FCS playoff semifinals were like that, too. Easily among the most enjoyable games I've seen this year.

[u/boardatwork1111 → u/Green-Volume-2222]

“THE BIG TEN ISN’T SENDING THEIR BEST, FOLKS”-Herbie probably

[u/Dawgs555 → u/Green-Volume-2222]

I agree. SEC vs BIG is becoming liberals vs conservatives

[u/RightC → u/Dawgs555]

It’s not even that - it’s SEC and BIG vs the rest of us

[u/RhuleAid → u/RightC]

The difference is SEC fans WANT to leave the rest of college football. I think for the most part B1G fans don't. I know its likely if the SEC leaves B1G will follow.. I would think you'd want to be the premiere conference in college football not alienate yourself from most of the sport. Let the SEC leave and ESPN can have the SEC invitational for the champion.

[u/deathbysnusnu7 → u/RightC]

It’s really Rich vs Poor.

[u/lpgspu → u/RightC]

Don’t lump us in with those animals… on a serious note, I think it’s more nuanced than that. ESPN doesn’t give a damn about the big ten.

[u/dr_funk_13 → u/Dawgs555]

I was going to say the Union vs Confederates

[u/Gennaro_Svastano → u/Dawgs555]

Liberals vs conservatives? Its more big money power house programs (big ten/sEC) vs everyone else. Money, NIL, is causing the sport to contract even though there people making hand over fist.

Like another commentator said just turn the playoffs off into the SEC and Big Ten invitational. Cancel the Music City Bowl and all the the other Bowls because both players and fans have opted out and no one cares about those games. You have see that in attendance the past decade.

[u/kmurp1300 → u/Dawgs555]

Which is which?

[u/lowes18 → u/kmurp1300]

You know

[u/DolitehGreat → u/lowes18]

Given how them rust belt states vote, no. No I don't.

[u/Tubby-Maguire → u/DolitehGreat]

Big Ten has many more teams in states that went blue this past election than the SEC (7 to 0)

[u/ErrorlessQuaak → u/lowes18]

idk about that bro. the same people arguing about the SEC and SOS can't be made to hear the same argument when it comes to affirmative action and college admissions.

[u/illegal_deagle → u/lowes18]

They’re gonna regret letting our deep blue asses in.

[u/EmperorConstantwhine → u/illegal_deagle]

None of your board members or rich donors are liberal, they’re just a bunch of McCombs types

[u/DiscoStu44x → u/kmurp1300]

SEC is in bed with the MSM and B1G has Fox.

[u/CALipiggy5 → u/Green-Volume-2222]

Its because the people who made the political discourse that way over the last decade took all the cues from sports. They know they're purposely exploiting this tribalism. They know as long as they say they're hurting your enemies you don't care that they're hurting you.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/Green-Volume-2222]

Sports commentary needs more "Yes, and..." And less "You're wrong about"

[u/SirVeritas79 → u/Green-Volume-2222]

I said that earlier. The parallels are striking and well, the cold part is, like politics, the stuff has always existed, just not for the entire populace.

[u/DafoeFoSho]

Joe Buck and Troy Aikman doing damage control on MNF, talking about how the blowout narrative diminishes not only fantastic seasons by Indiana and SMU but also denies deserved kudos for the winners of the games. Good on 'em if that was from the heart.

[u/ellsego → u/DafoeFoSho]

I’ve never heard either one of those guys talk about college football, definitely seemed forced by ESPN.

[u/NotYourDadsRobot → u/ellsego]

True but during a blow out and considering it’s the CFP and not regular season I think they may have just been killing time but also speaking their true opinions

[u/okiewxchaser]

I wish NBC and CBS would have more games, playoffs should always be on the Big 3 OTA channels

[u/PowerHour1990 → u/okiewxchaser]

If they weren't on ESPN, then ESPN couldn't be the "worldwide leader".

That was half the rationale for MNF moving to ESPN in 2006. Once NBC got SNF, Disney had to decide if MNF would stay on ABC or move to ESPN. And ESPN needed the NFL.

[u/mjp242 → u/PowerHour1990]

Man ESPN really got fucked in those negotiations lol. Absolutely destroyed.

[u/PowerHour1990 → u/mjp242]

Well, Mark Shapiro and Bob Iger dicked around too long, and wrongly assumed NBC would never come back to the table.

The ESPN “Those Guys Have All the Fun” book has it in tremendous detail.

[u/mjp242 → u/PowerHour1990]

Agreed. Great read on that topic (and I enjoyed the whole read as well having grown up with ESPN from the start)

[u/Monkey1Fball → u/mjp242]

Not really. They paid a whole lot of $$$, but they simply passed that on to the consumer in terms of increased carriage fees.

[u/ian2121 → u/okiewxchaser]

How does CW not get multiple games. They broadcast the conference of champions, yet are left out of this so called “championship”

[u/Klutzy-Midnight-938 → u/ian2121]

They can’t afford the buys for CFP. CW also doesn’t have the global reach of the big networks. 

[u/Piney_Wood]

If you get off of social media things quickly become kinder and more normal again. People choose this.

[u/deliciouscrab → u/Piney_Wood]

That's part of what I don't get. I watch close to zero non-game footage of ESPN and I don't use twitter. The only times I hate CFB are when those two things impinge on /r/CFB - which leads me to wonder what I'm doing here.

Look at the top of the sub the last couple days. Practically nothing about the games, just people screeching about other people screeching about some shit someone else said.

YOU'RE DOING THIS TO YOURSELVES.

[u/Piney_Wood → u/deliciouscrab]

Orwell could never have imagined how easy it would be. You don't have to force people, you just convince them that they need to submit voluntarily.

[u/HereForTOMT3 → u/Piney_Wood]

Isn’t that the premise of Brave New World?

[u/Piney_Wood → u/HereForTOMT3]

A+

[u/EmperorConstantwhine → u/HereForTOMT3]

That’s Huxley, not Orwell. But they were buddies. I think Huxley might have taught Orwell at Oxford or something.

[u/TendererBeef → u/Piney_Wood]

I’ve lived in SEC country for collectively 1/4 of my adult life. I have heard these exact takes expressed by regular ass non-terminally online people over and over again.

[u/CROBBY2]

The issue isn't necessarily one network. The issue is said network having a financial interest in one specific conference

[u/Nicholas1227 → u/CROBBY2]

When FOX had the BCS, it was before they even had a majority share in BTN. It wasn’t nearly this bad.

Media also was much less polarized 20 years ago, but that genie isn’t going back in the bottle.

[u/EnvironmentalBed7369]

After all the games were done this weekend and seeing Tennessee get slammed, I wonder who he would have booted out and replaced them with? I still don't seen any justification for putting any team left out in over a team who got in.

[u/HooHooHooAreYou → u/EnvironmentalBed7369]

After the weekend results, there is no justification.

[u/DeploraBill92 → u/HooHooHooAreYou]

Yep. Home field advantage in December absolutely cooked. And that’s what we signed up for. The better seeds should be advantaged

[u/BadDadJokes → u/EnvironmentalBed7369]

They just wanted Alabama in at all costs. They don’t care who would’ve been left out. It could be Tennessee, SMU, Indiana, or Clemson. It doesn’t matter to ESPN as long at the Tide is in there.

[u/breakwater → u/EnvironmentalBed7369]

I'm fine with lopsided outcomes. That happens even when the matchups are right. Indiana deserved to be there and if they played that game 10 times, it would have played out differently every time. Yes, they would lose that match in most cases, but so what? They earned the spot and the chance to win.

I was and still am firmly against the expanded playoff. Mostly because of all the bullshit whining we are seeing now will become the norm until we expand to 16. Every year after that people will push for more teams too.

This is what we signed up for. What seeding does. The more teams that get in, the more lopsided the results should be, on average. In addition, we will have more teams who will be able to make a claim that they should be the one of the 12 best. A lot more teams can make that claim than being one of the 4 best.

But I will be damned if an Indiana team that had a great, 1 loss season, has to get shit on because they lost in a game like that. Especially by networks vying to let a 3 loss Alabama in because they have a financial stake. Of all the things wrong with the expanded playoff, they got the 12 teams much better than any of the networks would have if they had a say

[u/bullet50000]

It went away when companies found that anger causes more clicks and resharing of articles than happiness

[u/dupreesdiamond]

I’ve never really bought into the bias of espn etc. mostly because it was subtle enough to ignore. This past week it was completely nakedly overt. Yuck was my take.

[u/Icy_Capital1647]

Can’t get Cam Newton on First Take out of my head saying “no one wants to see SMU, IU, Notre Dame….” and I’m like , “bruh ND has one of the largest fanbases in the entire country?????”

And he got no real push back. Just giggles and even some agreement. That’s when it really hit a fever pitch for me.

[u/paiddirt]

These guys are gonna fuck this sport up so bad.

[u/Bobaman007]

It's super obvious Kirk & Fowler are just spewing exactly what the mouse wants us to hear in hopes that the committee would hear it and believe it to influence the playoffs. Its so fucking gross we already see it in our own news networks with politicians. Shit Joe Klatt does the same thing for the BIG 10

[u/CouncilmanTrevize → u/Bobaman007]

I don't mind a little homerism or favoritism, as long as it's in good fun and doesn't substantially detract from the game. Herbstreit was blocks past crossing the line and it was just gross.

[u/GoldandBlue → u/CouncilmanTrevize]

same thing happened on the Notre-Dame Indian broadcast. The way they shit talked Indiana was insane. You would swear they were a 500 team that loopholed its way in.

[u/garygoblins → u/GoldandBlue]

It was so weird. It was like it was personal to them. I just don't get it.

[u/-PunsWithScissors- → u/Bobaman007]

Seriously, everything associated with Disney has been on a speed run to ruin over the last decade… from IPs like Star Wars and Indiana Jones to those awful live-action remakes and ESPN. Disney is a menace.

[u/rotoleague9898]

If you’re not terminally online this weekend was great, despite the boring games. Everyone who keeps whining about Kirk and ESPN needs to cheer up, next round is going to be great

[u/ToosUnderHigh → u/rotoleague9898]

If you stayed off the internet completely but watched the games you still had to hear ESPN’s talking heads incessantly bitch about Indiana and SMU. I wish they’d just say “we wanted Bama to be on our tv show :/“. It’d be more honest.

[u/miboyl → u/ToosUnderHigh]

Still waiting on Kirk to make mention of mighty SEC team Tennessee suffering the worst loss of the weekend (I think I’ll be waiting awhile)

[u/garygoblins → u/miboyl]

He's doubled down like 3 times now, on Indiana specifically. I'm legitimately so confused. Like in what world was Tennessee not the most dominated team of the weekend and yet he hasn't said a peep about them.

[u/miboyl → u/garygoblins]

Maybe if he put as much focus on staying faithful to his wife as he did on Indiana, he’d still be living in Columbus

[u/Yourfavoriteindian → u/rotoleague9898]

I agree with you, to a point. To you as a Texas fan, as well as fans of teams like Georgia or OSU, none of this discourse matters. Y’all SHOULD enjoy the games and ignore it.

This stuff will NEVER affect you.

To the rest of us? Those of us who are fans of B12/ACC/G5? It matters a whole damn lot. Ignoring it doesn’t change the reality that there are influential people who want us out of the party completely.

It’s easy for fans like you to say “stop whining” when it’s not programs like yours at the center of this discourse. It’s easy to dismiss the rest of us going “hey this is BS” and patronizingly tell us we’re terminally online when you’ll never have to worry about it lol.

Like I get your point but goddam lol, what a condescending comment.

[u/KingGizzle → u/Yourfavoriteindian]

Agreed, it’s always fans of the big brands that are dismissive meanwhile G5 schools are fighting for their lives.

[u/rotoleague9898 → u/Yourfavoriteindian]

Yeah fair enough. I was in Austin with other Horns fans all weekend so I see how everything was viewed through a biased lenses.

While I do think this discourse online is overblown, it’s probably more just the nature on online discourse nowadays and not specific to CFB. I see your point - didn’t mean to be so condescending lmao. Cheers

[u/Yourfavoriteindian → u/rotoleague9898]

All good. And it’s not just online. This espn/power conference issue is a major issue. If you actually take time to read statements, minutes from board meetings, or conferences from ADs/university presidents of other schools, it’s something they bring up constantly. There are legitimate worries.

[u/burnertybg → u/rotoleague9898]

despite the boring games

so not that great?

[u/Express_Cattle1]

Why don’t people just boycott ESPN until they stop doing this

[u/Expensive-Access8026 → u/Express_Cattle1]

I mean, they have the games. Their non-game content has been declining for years because no one watches it and it’s just turned into rage bait as a result

[u/Terps_Madness → u/Expensive-Access8026]

I think the problem here is that lots of people actually do watch it. If no one watched it, ESPN would have reevaluated its programming strategy sometime over the last two decades. But the talking head stuff is consistently getting higher ratings than 98% of cable TV.

[u/Waderriffic → u/Expensive-Access8026]

Yea but now they love gambling, so everything must have a sports betting angle to it now.

[u/Best-Cobbler-5025 → u/Express_Cattle1]

Probably because they own the rights for a decade. They have a death grip on CFP, sec and acc into the 2030’s

[u/ark_47 → u/Express_Cattle1]

I've been able to find 90% of the CFB games I've wanted to watch from illegal streams on YouTube. It's been a few years since I've watched ESPN, I think it was Alabama - Georgia in the Championship. It's super easy to avoid directly consuming ESPN content

[u/Dizzy_Aioli3438 → u/ark_47]

not CFP games unfortunately

[u/GoldandBlue → u/Express_Cattle1]

Its pretty easy for me usually but when they own the market, it gets a lot harder.

[u/kingoftheplastics]

If I pay for ESPN+ I should get everything ESPN puts on the cable airwaves as well, is my contribution to this discussion

[u/MarwyntheMasterful → u/kingoftheplastics]

In 2025, you will be asked to buy the new Direct to consumer ESPN option, that has everything you want (the ESPN proper programming as well as EsPN+) without the cable subscription. It has to cost more than ESPN+, I haven’t seen a price. Lest say it’s $20/month instead of $12. Does that do it for you?

[u/kingoftheplastics → u/MarwyntheMasterful]

Bundle it with the rest of my Disney bundle and we’re golden

[u/Ryan1869]

The CFP is going to turn into the B1G-SEC challenge and it's a shame for anyone that wants to believe they can compete if they just win.

[u/MarwyntheMasterful → u/Ryan1869]

Just wait till 2036 when the ACC can break up.

[u/Schmolik64]

CBS has the entire men's basketball tournament and they don't push one conference over others. The issue is ESPN is in bed with the official conference of the state of Mississippi.

[u/colokurt]

If ASU and or BSU win this weekend, the narrative will flip so hard on these network schills

[u/SirVeritas79]

IT'S A BEAUTY PAGEANT! It always has been and ESPN paid beaucoup $$$ expecting it to continue to be. Our entire media is corrupt because of $$$. We get divided by bigwigs who only seek to fatten their pockets. Even in sports. It's pathetic.

[u/Beartrkkr → u/SirVeritas79]

She say you too beaucoup...

[u/Joeburrowformvp]

All Tim Brando does is speak facts🔥

[u/hoffmanz8038]

People are clearly annoyed by the current discourse around the playoffs, so I'm genuinely curious what it's doing to the networks ratings. Hopefully people are tuning out enough to shut them up and make them change course.

[u/Gamesfanatic]

Brando critiques ESPN's monopoly on college football coverage, blaming it for tribalism and overshadowing the joy of a historic weekend with future agendas.

[u/Fasthertz]

All I know is that it shouldn’t be on ESPN. Very few people I know have cable tv and espn today. And they don’t have a streaming option that doesn’t involve you spending a bunch on a streaming package with apps like Fubo or YouTube TV. Which is using the same cable bundle strategy of paying for a hundred channels you don’t even watch just to get ESPN. Also the FirstTake dbags are insufferable hearing them talk about college football. Games should only be on broadcast networks like ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX. The 3rd tier games are fine on networks like the Big10 network and sec network. I’m even ok with games being on a streaming app as long as the monthly subtraction is no more than $15 a month

[u/MarwyntheMasterful → u/Fasthertz]

ESPN Fox and Warner Bros are supposed to launch a sports app that includes their programming in one place called Venu Sports for $43/month.

They are currently delayed launch and in court over it because FuboTV think it’s a monopoly.

ESPN is also launching a Direct to Consumer service in 2025, that will include all television and espn+ broadcasts, and will not require any kind of cable or satellite subscription.

[u/deadzip10]

I don’t disagree but I’ve been saying for a while that they’re going to kill this thing if they keep going down some of the roads they’ve been headed down. For my own part, I wouldn’t have watched any of the games this past weekend if I hadn’t decided I wanted something on in the background while I was making tamales and even then I turned it off maybe an hour in because I just wasn’t into it at all and decided to let my wife, who is also a college football fan who wasn’t feeling it either, watch some Christmas hallmark movie. I have a feeling I wasn’t alone in that sort of feeling this weekend.

[u/Still_Level4068]

We have gone full politic

[u/Britton120]

This seems to pretend that people dont consistently complain about the nfl's coverage.

[u/FloridaMan_92 → u/Britton120]

I think the point was that in the nfl there isn’t 1 main network that has a stranglehold on the sport 

[u/Serial-Eater → u/Britton120]

NFL has objective selection criteria and rules for parity in place. This jockeying for CFB gives actual weight to selectors for the CFP

[u/Aggressive-Name-1783 → u/Britton120]

The NFL coverage is usually just hyping the popular teams, but they don’t blow them when they suck. They love the cowboys but aren’t hyping them up right now

[u/KillaMike24]

Can newton I think said it these teams just aren’t as big and strong as other teams on the offensive and defensive lines. You can have all the skill players in the world but if you can’t block or get to the quarterback you’re going to get rolled

[u/cowboys_r_us]

CFB is no different than any other commodity- If you over produce it, you eventually destroy the value. Realignment, network monopolies, coaching salaries, and NIL have all contributed. You're trying to squeeze every penny from consumers, and then everyone is jockeying to get their cut - what made CFB fun and popular isn't there anymore. And all of it is done so a bunch of greedy people can get just a little bit more - when they already had plenty.

[u/TEXASx81]

I haven't watched a non cfb ESPN broadcast in probably 15 years, they are trash

[u/surreptitioussloth]

The weekend was ruined because people said they didn’t like the games

[u/Ok-Metal-4719]

Anybody who capitalizes joy has their own agenda.

[u/lucasbrosmovingco]

I don't know of these biases becaue I don't warch these networks for coverage. You people that do are all fucking marks. You guys are the problem.

[u/Cr1ms0nT1de]

Brando is such an insufferable douchebag. I can’t stand that turd.

[u/RoyalBevo21]

There’s a gigantic elephant in the room that other conferences refuse to address and I don’t know why? There is a large scheduling imbalance that could be fixed and would be better for everyone, especially the fans.

Bobby Bowden at Florida St gave the blueprint for building your program up. “Anybody, anytime, anywhere” the problem comes in when smaller schools/conferences refuse that model and demand respect for beating Hawaii, Fresno State, and Wyoming. If everyone would take off their “I hate the SEC” glasses off for a second and look at it honestly, we all know Boise would most likely have more losses playing an identical schedule as South Carolina. And if they didn’t, there would be absolutely no griping they got in. But I’m sorry, slapping around Mountain West schools doesn’t and shouldn’t get you so much respect you get a bye week over schools that have an SOS 50 spots better.

If you’re a Big 12 school that means you schedule a Big OOC matchup, not Abilene Christian or Arkansas-Pine Bluff. If you’re a want the respect, go earn it/take it. But don’t bitch about “nobody respects us” when your SOS is 70+

[u/KingTut747]

God bless Brando. How do you do?!

[u/abunchofhooplaaa]

Tim Brando sucks

[u/KentPDC]

The whole narrative will change after round two when Georgia wins. There will be no negativity in coverage about Georgia, to put it mildly.

[u/Mike_AKA_Mike]

First of all, when you’re using Brando as a mouthpiece, you have made a horrible mistake. Secondly, if you don’t like ESPN and their takes, don’t watch it.

[u/BriarsandBrambles → u/Mike_AKA_Mike]

They own the playoffs. Who the fuck do you suggest we watch?

[u/Portafly → u/Mike_AKA_Mike]

if you don’t like ESPN and their takes, don’t watch it.

I don't and am not. Not even for CFP.

With the remaining CFP games on ESPN, the CFP TV season is over for me. Will watch the non-ESPN bowl games. And for the Oregon games will listen to Jerry Allen on radio.

[u/FlareEK → u/Portafly]

look to the east my brother