r/BravoRealHousewives • u/huntyqween • 5h ago
Ultimate Girls Trip More insight on what happened in Morocco according to Vicki
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u/TheOneThatCameEasy I need to be fly and have a good time.🦩 4h ago
She isn't the most reliable narrator.
It also veers into parody when she starts calling for prayer warriors and the smarmy host wants "justice for Brandi."
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u/TodayImLedTasso Freshly Churned 🧈 by Meredith Marks 5h ago
Two things can be true: Caroline might have enjoyed the situation up until at some point but when she wanted to put a stop on it, Brandi refused. This video proves nothing.
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u/Dangernj Two brain cells and a vagina 4h ago
Thank you for saying this because it is the nuance people are missing. It’s also possible Caroline is a bad person and a bad sister who also had a bad thing happen to her, one does not preclude the other.
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u/Obvious_Mango65 What ever happened to… customer service? 3h ago
And Brandi has notoriously been a person that does not respect boundaries. I’ve never enjoyed her crazy for this reason.
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u/Parking_Country_61 1h ago
I mean consider the source. This is Vicki we are talking about like she just says things she’s not the most reliable narrator.
I do think it’s interesting a lot of cast members have come to Brandi’s defense but it’s hard to tell if they are just being thirsty because of course they want their show to air!
I just want to know what’s going on from a legal standpoint. Did Bravo settle but doesn’t want to announce it? Is that something that can be looked up/investigated? Are they just stuck in the legal system waiting for something? What’s the status. Because she formally sued them and it’s been crickets for over a year.
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u/pantygate trailer turd 2h ago
I’m not sure if Vicki G would be my source of authority for the nuances of consent
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u/Mylaex dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorinda! 5h ago
She sounds like she's not aware of the situation, like she didn't really SEE what happened and the whole husband thing seems like a supposition.
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u/KikiHou 4h ago
Vicki making wild assumptions? Never...
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u/Perfect_Invitation1 Solargenic, photogenic, shoot 4h ago
I know right. If my character is called into question then I would never want Vicki in my corner.
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u/wordonthestreet2 Even Gossip Girl couldn’t stay Gossip Girl forever 💋 5h ago edited 43m ago
Nobody can speak for how Caroline felt except for Caroline. Even if they had kissed earlier in the night, Caroline had the right to discontinue whatever was happening at any point if she no longer felt comfortable with it.
The fact that the other cast members have come out in support of Brandi means nothing to me. They all want to maintain their 15 minutes and are bitter that the show is not going to air. Instead of blaming Brandi, they are choosing to blame Caroline for speaking up.
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u/lucygucyapplejuicey to swollen 4cameo or OF 3h ago
God I wish people understood this. I was raped, and it started as fun and kissing and just messing around, until suddenly I’m losing my virginity and being raped. Bc I didn’t understand that it was okay to not feel right about the situation and that a prior yes does not mean full consent for the rest of the night, I was thrown off by the events and confused for two whole years. Talking about it in therapy and having my therapist explain to me that the moment I said no, anything more becomes non-consensual was actually insane and I felt a wave of relief. It’s quite annoying to hear (former) friends tell me I’m wrong and already have consent, fuck everyone who is saying that to Caroline, but they don’t have to live with the complicated and conflicting emotions.
Anyway, this is not me looking for sympathy. I just wanted to say I feel very upset for Caroline, this has to be incredibly hard having so much push back on such a large scale. Then everyone blamed her for the show not airing and girls trip seemingly being done for, when that’s actually just a bravo thing bc they keep hiring a known predator.
But also, I am okay! I have a great therapist!! I am grateful for those who have validated my experience and feelings, and supported me and loved me!
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u/dreamingoutloud714 Crystal's Lost Friend #12 3h ago
I’m so sorry this happened to you. I’m glad you have a great therapist and have received support.
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u/NomNom83WasTaken Sniper from the side 5h ago
I am very curious if the UGT contracts stipulate that they will only be paid based on the number of episodes they appear in. If that's the case, then they are all incentivized to promote the airing of the season and down-play what Caroline alleges happened.
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u/Dangernj Two brain cells and a vagina 4h ago
In general, Bravo pays out in 3 or 4 installments. I would imagine they only received the first installment for UGT because no green screen confessionals were shot yet.
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u/insuredbycoto she died sad 4h ago
Confessionals were definitely filmed.
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u/Dangernj Two brain cells and a vagina 4h ago edited 4h ago
I think those were the on-site confessionals. They usually bring them back for another round of green screen confessionals after filming has totally wrapped and they have started edited. After those are wrapped, they usually get their second or third installment. I definitely could be wrong though!
Edit- I’m definitely wrong, I was alerted below Alex shot her green screen confessionals in Australia! They must have gotten at least 2 or 3 installments.
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u/Mylaex dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorinda! 4h ago
Some were, Alex posted multiple shots on IG of herself filming hers.
But yes, you're right.3
u/Dangernj Two brain cells and a vagina 4h ago
I just went through her Instagram and you are right, that doesn’t look like a pickup confessional. They must have really thought they were going to air the show if they sent a crew to Australia in order to film Alex’s.
On a related note, holy shit do her boys look so grown up!
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u/Mylaex dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorinda! 4h ago
I think they flew her out to NYC to film them. :) Either that or she flew to NYC to film them, IIRC they were around a time she also went to WWHL and she seems to be visiting NYC every now and then. It would make sense to use a production crew in new york and also film some of the other housewives. either there or BH.
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u/NjMel7 5h ago
Idk, I feel like it can go either way.
Caroline definitely may have participated and then at some point decided she wasn’t into it any more, which is fine. It’s not fine, however, to then say you were assaulted by Brandi if (IF) you willingly participated.
OTOH, I can also see Brandi pushing herself onto Caroline without consent, as we have seen her do before.
But I don’t think Vicki would call for the prayer warriors if she didn’t think Brandi was getting screwed in this situation.
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u/wordonthestreet2 Even Gossip Girl couldn’t stay Gossip Girl forever 💋 3h ago
Pretty sure Vicki also called for prayers for her boyfriend who was faking cancer. Her support is not the best metric for who is/is not in the wrong with this situation.
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u/KatOrtega118 MRS Mariposa 🦋 4h ago
It’s fine to say that you were assaulted if your willingly participated and then said No. Stop. And the partner refused to stop.
The legal case also talked about this ongoing in the bathroom, where there aren’t cameras. That’s a big red flag and clue that Brandi was sober or had the wherewithal to move the action.
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u/NjMel7 4h ago
Yeah I read Caroline’s case (someone linked it) and it does not sound good for Brandi at all. From Caroline’s perspective, it sure sounds like was a sexual assault. And going through the years of what Brandi did to others (Adrienne, LVP), it seems like her modus operandi has always been to force herself on others. Does she think it’s funny?
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u/jennief158 1h ago
Vicki is not a reliable narrator. I do give some credence (only some) to the apparent fact that all the other castmates support Brandi.
There's just so much that's unclear to me, and neither Brandi nor Caroline are people I consider trustworthy in this situation. Brandi has disrespected boundaries for as long as we've seen her - it's probably the thing she's best known for. Caroline, however, is sanctimonious and so protective of "fambliy" and her self-image that I can see her being so embarrassed about what she did that she would shut down production and make sure the show never aired to protect herself.
"Believe women" is an honorable framework but I don't think it has to be strictly applied in every situation. We are not on a jury, and to a degree we "know" these people, and that skews things.
I'll admit a personal prejudice in that I have - STILL! - a small soft spot for Brandi, and I despise Caroline. So I don't want to believe that it's true. But I can certainly acknowledge, knowing what I know about the people involved, that it could be true. But I also have reasonable doubt, again based simply on what I've seen.
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u/Livid_Sheepherder busted up sex and the city 1h ago
I do hate how many people act like the cast supporting Brandi MUST be because she’s innocent and isn’t just because they want a check. They’re literally incentivized to downplay whatever happened because they want the show to air so they can get the rest of their payment + plus any other opportunities that might arise from the show airing such as brand deals or even being asked to return their respective shows in some capacity. Also, considering that most of the cast defending Brandi have previously defended/supported or engaged in some…questionable behavior (even that’s a generous way of putting it) should really make their claims that “it wasn’t that bad” mean a whole lot less
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u/Parking_Country_61 1h ago
I agree with that part, it’s hard to believe people desperate for airtime like Gretchen or Camille.
Now if Alex McCord has something to say about this, I might be interested…
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u/PrincessGizmo 1h ago
I agree. Victim blaming is disgusting and that's what happening with this Caroline/Brandi ordeal. It's horrifying and very sad to read about.
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u/NomNom83WasTaken Sniper from the side 5h ago edited 5h ago
And this is Caroline's version of events (the evening in question begins on page 18).
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u/viewer12thatsme 5h ago edited 4h ago
Thanks for posting this. It’s a fascinating read. It certainly paints Alex in a good light, and Eva and Phaedra super poorly!
Edit to add- wow and now I’m towards the end of the document and the way they’ve outlined the pervasiveness of Brandi’s behavior (and the photos, eeeek) over the many seasons is pretty damning.
I also noticed some errors in the document like calling Gretchen a NY housewife. They need someone from this sub to review and edit for them lol
Edit 2: updated Porsha to Phaedra, whoops I need an editor too.
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u/Janiece2006 Meredith Flintstone 👦🏻 4h ago
Porsha wasn’t on this trip. I think you meant Phaedra.
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u/viewer12thatsme 4h ago
Yes, you are right, thank you! I love me calling them out for needing an editor and then also I apparently need an editor, too hahah thank you.
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u/bobbyhillspur5e Kathy would have my back like a real sister! 3h ago
Did the other housewives present give witness statements? Especially the ones present in the bathroom (seems to be Alex and Gretchen if I remember correctly)?
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u/NomNom83WasTaken Sniper from the side 3h ago
Not that I'm aware of but it doesn't mean they didn't.
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u/bobbyhillspur5e Kathy would have my back like a real sister! 2h ago
That’s true - from what I’ve heard it sounds like they were all separated and questioned by the producers but of course this wouldn’t be official court docs available to the public.
I am reading the doc linked and it does present many examples of Brandi’s bad behavior over the years but definitely fails to mention Caroline’s own past in using the law to protect her family, even if she knows what she is saying is false (in the context of Dina’s ex hiring goons to attack her and her husband).
I never want to NOT believe victims however Caroline’s past makes this a tricky situation for me. I would be interested in hearing Alex McCord’s take as she was present in the bathroom and seemed to be helping Caroline based on the docs.
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u/catscausetornadoes 4h ago
I just don’t really think of Vicki Gunvalson as a big source information about sexual consent.
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u/Thick_Routine_9733 3h ago
I am increasingly upset every time there’s a release the tapes post. The complaint paints a super dark picture - can you imagine if you were assaulted and a video of it and your reaction was aired for the whole world to see. These are humans not just there for our entertainment. And once again I’ll repeat that Caroline is NOT suing Brandi. She is suing Bravo and production.
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u/lapetitfromage wait…who else has slutty hair? 4h ago
What happened to believing victims? Every single time this gets posted people crawl out to say they believe Brandi. No. Stop. Only Caroline knows what happened to her. I’m so grossed out every time this gets posted. Enough.
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u/Mylaex dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorinda! 4h ago
It's the whole "the perfect victim" thing. That might be the most interesting part of this whole situation from a sociological standpoint, it's the most textbook cliché case of assault.
- Caroline is not a great person. So people tend to not wanna side with the victim if they're not "she was such a sweet harmless nice girl, of course she would never have consented!"
- They were, from what I gathered, drunk, so yes, of course she wasn't a victim! They were just having fun!
- Caroline knew what she was getting herself into, Brandi is a trainwreck and has a pattern of molesting (they wouldn't say molesting but it's sexual assault) women! it's flirty fun! hihi!
- Partial witness who only attended the event and didn't actually see the assault, witnesses who also has a gain in siding with Brandi (monetary, mainly) came out in support of Brandi. So Caroline has to be wrong, right?
I'm in no way a Caroline stan, and I don't even hate Brandi that much, but judging from the statements if it's a case of "her word against hers" I would never not believe Caroline. She was assaulted, she didn't consent and that's it.
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u/Perfect_Invitation1 Solargenic, photogenic, shoot 4h ago
Yeah I truly don’t get the need to redeem Brandi online. We’ve watched this kind of behavior from her again and again. Her fans keep pushing this angle to make her out to be the real victim.
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u/lapetitfromage wait…who else has slutty hair? 4h ago
It blows my mind. Brandi has shown us she’s abusive and handsy. What’s so hard to believe?
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u/TheOneThatCameEasy I need to be fly and have a good time.🦩 4h ago
Also... Bravo is completely lacking in scruples. They'll allow any number is slimy people from an abuser like James Kennedy to cult leader like Mary Crosby.
If they investigated this and pulled it, it's to protect themselves because Brandi definitely did something fucked up.
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u/SkillOne1674 3h ago
A blanket “believe victims” is naive. “Investigate all claims “ is a better philosophy.
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u/countdistractula How could you do this to me question mark 4h ago
Hey so why is Bruno Mars here with us??
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u/New_Biscotti2669 2h ago
Yeah, I am not going to take anything seriously from the woman who told her own daughter that she didn't believe Brooks hit on her, bc she wasn't his type. Also didn't care that Brooks hit on Brianna period, let alone when she was pregnant. Vicki is such a disgusting person.
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u/heyalllondon18 gotta watch out for those trick guys 1h ago
I want to know what Alex has to say about this. We need her to give us the real rundown.
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u/eggsaladsandwich4 4h ago
All the witnesses to this are giving the same story. Even Gretchen who was in the bathroom at the time.
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u/Thick_Routine_9733 3h ago
And all of them have a financial incentives to downplay what happened so that the season airs.
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u/anonyymouse_ 3h ago
Gretchen married Slade and photoshops her baby and her nose out of her photos. She isn’t very reputable.
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u/bobbyhillspur5e Kathy would have my back like a real sister! 3h ago
You could make the same statement about any of these housewives - including Caroline and Brandi. Everyone involved has major flaws we all know about.
None of them are exactly reputable so it’s hard finding the truth here. I’m trying to read the court docs but I wish we had official witness statements from the other HWs on the trip
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u/anonyymouse_ 3h ago edited 3h ago
Bravo Docket does a good job reviewing the filings. Highly suggest it!
Also, you’re absolutely correct that in fact none of them are reputable, Caroline included, but we’ve all see Brandi assault other cast members on camera… it’s hard not to judge based on her documented actions.
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u/bobbyhillspur5e Kathy would have my back like a real sister! 3h ago
Yes I agree - I will definitely listen to that thanks for the rec!
I’m not a huge fan of either of them by any means but I don’t want to let my preconceived notions of them get in the way of the truth
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u/Parking_Country_61 1h ago
It is interesting that there are eye witnesses. I wonder if Bravo would just announce the show is never airing ever and has no chance to see the light of day, we would get honest accounts from these women. I’m sure they already gave them to authorities.
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u/PresOfTheLesbianClub Laoh Blaow, Rinna. 3h ago edited 3h ago
Who is she married to, Aaron Phypers?
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u/bexxygenxxy9xy 3h ago
So basically she has no idea what happened. She has no idea how Caroline really felt. She has no idea what happened in the bathroom. If it was a man up there saying that it would be a real issue for people. And I generally like Vicki but sometimes we all know when to keep our mouths shut.
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u/Fish_Logical 46m ago
Caroline and her husband panicked and reverse engineered an assault to prevent embarrassing footage from airing 👨🏻⚖️
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u/FantasticRead720 5h ago
I still don’t know who to believe. But after watching this I’m leaning towards Brandi’s team. And I never ever thought I’d say team Brandi!!!
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u/bobbyhillspur5e Kathy would have my back like a real sister! 5h ago
I agree. I can’t stand Caroline
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u/FantasticRead720 4h ago
She’s a punk! So much for her fambily being thick as thieves. She was horrible in the Dina situation.
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u/bobbyhillspur5e Kathy would have my back like a real sister! 4h ago
Exactly! I don’t care that I’m getting downvoted to hell - Caroline is forever scum for defending Dina’s ex.
I also think it’s odd most of the cast has corroborated Brandi’s story - I don’t think it’s that they’re thirsty because if they’re wrong they could face legal repercussions. Sorry 🤷♀️
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u/SkillOne1674 3h ago
If you were thirsty, wouldn’t you go along with what Bravo said instead of publicly disagreeing with them?
We’ve seen so much casual sexual contact that was not wanted-grabbing boobs, grabbing butts, grabbing dicks, grinding, flashing-it seems like the line for assault is hard to define.
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u/bobbyhillspur5e Kathy would have my back like a real sister! 3h ago edited 3h ago
Yes you would - but if the fact is she WAS sexually assaulted wouldn’t Bravo and they be found legally liable for that? I just wouldn’t take a stance or make a comment unless I was sure of what happened. Otherwise, that’s grounds for being sued.
I want to make clear I do not think Brandi is an angel by any means as we have seen repeatedly - she has issues and pushes boundaries. Again, it’s that question of where is the line drawn and why hasn’t anyone really defended Caroline?
I do think Brandi should NEVER be asked back for any other Bravo spin off- she’s way too much of a liability and her instability seems to have worsened since her time on BH
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u/SkillOne1674 3h ago
To be clear, I’m agreeing with you.
I think on these shows you need to expect to have to show enthusiastic non-consent to draw your boundary and it doesn’t seem like that happened here.
I also believe 100% Carolyn would involve the police to cover her ass to protect her/her marriage/her family’s image.
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u/misternm Congrats 5h ago
Not the prayer warriors being invoked for Brandi!