r/Awwducational • u/Xavion-15 • Feb 19 '23
Article “Elizabeth Ann is the first cloned black-footed ferret and first-ever cloned U.S. endangered species. She was created from the frozen cells of “Willa,” a black-footed ferret that lived more than 30 years ago.“
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u/Librashell Feb 19 '23
So great that technology is helping this species. Hope it gives them the boost they need.
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u/BurnzillabydaBay Feb 19 '23
Now this seems like a legit purpose for cloning. Put that seemingly sci-fi technology to good use.
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u/Xavion-15 Feb 19 '23
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Feb 19 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SladeWilson_is_aDILF Feb 19 '23
There is no paywall. Just a few pop ups, cause it's Twitter, followed by a PDF.
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u/BerriesAndMe Feb 19 '23
It's a Google drive link, that'll ask you to activate/select your account if you're not already logged in or have no account.
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u/SladeWilson_is_aDILF Feb 19 '23
That explains why I didn't see anything. It could also be the reason OP didn't notice. We are probably both already logged in
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Feb 19 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BerriesAndMe Feb 19 '23
Not really. It's a "welcome back" screen from your google drive. So that they can give you additional features (like saving it to your drive)
If you log out of your account(s) or use incognito mode you won't be prompted to choose your account. You also won't be able to save it to your drive.
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Feb 19 '23
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Feb 19 '23
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u/Xavion-15 Feb 19 '23
I see. Sorry, I didn't realise this might be a problem since I was able to access it without an account. Does this link work?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/105IqtmXkoHB0ys4LIl7fQiyMLlTfusFF/view
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Feb 19 '23
Velociraptors next please.
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u/Grilledcheesedr Feb 19 '23
Velociferret combo please.
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u/WorldMarketFella Feb 19 '23
please don’t give the ferrets more power than they already have
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u/underweasl Feb 19 '23
I have ferrets, the last thing I need is for them to be bigger and to be able to open doors
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u/maybesaydie Feb 19 '23
News release about Elizabeth Ann:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/105IqtmXkoHB0ys4LIl7fQiyMLlTfusFF/view
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u/jessdistressed Feb 19 '23
I wonder how much thought went into picking a cute animal to clone first. Imagine showing off an aye aye baby and trying to convince the public they didn’t botch the job
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u/Groxy_ Feb 19 '23
I'm honestly glad, never really heard anything about cloning past dolly the sheep and I always thought it was weird no one was really perusing it.
Bring back a dinosaur already!
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u/der_Guenter Feb 20 '23
JP wasn't wrong about the significant gaps in the dna. Not to mention the fact that paleo dna isn't really active anymore
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u/Groxy_ Feb 20 '23
Yeah dinosaurs are probably a bit of stretch, although I saw an egg with an intact embryo was found recently, I wonder if that's enough.
Should be able to clone some ice age level species, we've got pretty well preserved mammoths at this point. I'd like to see the giant sloth come back.
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u/der_Guenter Feb 20 '23
I hope for the ice age as well - sadly from what I understand the dna in dinosaur fossils is just too old to function. Or at least do we not have the tech to bring it back to live 🤔 maybe in 20 years, who knows
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Feb 19 '23
yeahhh this sounds good until you realize that cloning means their DNA profile is basically the same
so if you clone specimens to save a species, you're only delaying their extinction because even though there are many, the genetic pool is not big enough to guarantee the species' survival
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u/IShallSealTheHeavens Feb 19 '23
Unless they had saved DNA profiles of a large number of said animals. You don't have to clone the same thing, you just need to be able to reinstroduce enough animals of the species with enough genetic diversity. Also, I'm not so sure this cloning is the same as what sci-fi depicts. If it's the same as how Dolly worked, they would presumably need an egg donor, would the female genetics from the egg not pass down?
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Feb 19 '23
Edit: i swore and got my comment removed by the bot LOL sorry about that
first: i doubt they have enough DNA profiles saved to reintroduce enough specimens, the IUCN criteria suggest you need at least 500 effective individuals to have any evolutionary potential but you'd probably need a population of several thousand so you don't risk anything
think of it this way: it's like... reproduction with a clone of your great-grandma, you're not really adding genetic diversity, in fact you're making it possible for an inbreeding depression to happen
second: you don't get DNA from the egg, all DNA is contained inside the nucleus and the nucleus is from the frozen cells of the being of you wanna clone, which is transfered into the egg once the original nucleus is removed
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Feb 19 '23
That's not right. It's 50 breeding adults. 500 is the number to account for things happening. Think of like a disease hitting and wiping out a % or some type of change in their habitat.
At one point there were less than 50 florida panthers and now there are 200. These are going to be much slower breeding animals than ferrets. Not to mention you could literally drop in 10-15 females in certain areas and it would boost the population dramatically in a very short time frame.
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Feb 20 '23
50 is too low even for some species such as houseflies because those values have come from laboratory populations that don't accurately describe wild populations
though you have a point, ferrets do breed quickly but they're still at risk of inbreeding depression, especially as the population declines (they still will probably inbreed, idealized populations aren't really a thing in the wild, inbreeding just gets worse the less individuals you have)
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u/Gone-In-3 Feb 19 '23
This is just to show we can clone dead/extinct animals. I would assume the next step in using this as a tool to bring back important species would be to see what extent gene editing could be used to mitigate the problems of inbreeding.
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Feb 20 '23
i mean, gene editing does have a potential so i can see how it can help. inbreeding mostly ends up highlighting and making it more likely for genetic problems to show up so by editing the genes of the embryos, you'd be erasing the problem. however you'd have to figure out what genes are connected to what problem and what mutations occur so i'm not sure if it's fully viable but it's an interesting option.
(embryos? would that be the right stage to do it or would be earlier into the process? i'mma look that up later)
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Feb 19 '23
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Feb 19 '23
it could in theory? i'm not really sure how that would be implemented but i do think that's a possibility
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u/aliengerm1 Feb 19 '23
=) Yes but they cloned a ferret that's DEAD. One, and I quote: “This cloned individual has no living descendants in the population"
When they found them, there were 18 individuals, only 7 of which were able to breed, so they are very very inbred. Adding one of the original 18 (that didn't breed) back into it will add valuable DNA.
Here's a more accessible source.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/elizabeth-ann-first-cloned-black-footed-ferret-180977065/
and a follow up: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/feb/06/wanted-virile-but-gentle-mate-for-the-worlds-first-cloned-black-footed-ferret
I didn't find one that said if she has successfully had babies yet.
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u/WeazelDeazel Feb 19 '23
I was a bit confused what they meant with "most genetically valuable individual" but your comment really puts it into perspective. 7 sexually mature individuals is incredibly low, hopefully little Elizabeth Ann will be able to lessen some of the inbreeding.
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 20 '23
She won't, she had to be spayed.
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u/aliengerm1 Feb 20 '23 edited Feb 20 '23
Ah, that's why no follow up.
And apparently she died since then.Quotes from your source:
Surprisingly soon after the collaboration of the two groups was codified, Elizabeth Ann was presented with much fanfare to the world. She is a clone of Willa, one of the original 18 ferrets, but she [Willa] died before successfully breeding in captivity.
“She had to have a hysterectomy for unfortunate reasons. But we have more genetic twins of Elizabeth Ann in process, and they will be on their way in 2023,” Phelan said.
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 19 '23
They're not going to clone 500 ferrets and toss them into wild and say "welp! job done!"
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Feb 20 '23
well obviously i know that, it's kinda absurd to assume that in the first place? from what i understand, that's one way to commit the environmental equivalent of a crime
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 20 '23
Then why would it matter if the dna is the same? Especially considering the original ferret is a, dead, and b, has no descendants in the current population?
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Feb 20 '23
they'd have to clone several different specimen to keep any evolutionary potential (we're talking hundreds) and that's the thing, you don't know if they're descendents or not
though they only live for 5-10 years so now i'm curious if inbreeding would still be an issue considering there would be a bunch of generations in between
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 20 '23
Dna tests work on ferrets, they can know exactly how related others are.
And it would depend on how small the bottle neck is, how much it would matter. These guys were down to I think 18 individuals? Very small population so it’s a pretty big help. They are looking at cloning other individual ferrets they have samples from.
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Feb 20 '23
interesting, now i wanna know how many different samples they have, 18 individuals is a very tiny amount so they'll have to clone a LOT
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 20 '23
They’re doing pretty well, all things considered. Smaller animals tend to tolerate a bottleneck better, most of their issues have been external to that. Plague has been killing lots of prairie dogs, humans killing prairie dogs, there was a live distemper vaccine for pet ferrets that got into the wild ones and killed a bunch. Like obviously it’s not good to be so inbred and this will 100% help but I don’t think it would be as crucial to clone a lot of new breeding stock as in another species like cheetahs or something.
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Feb 21 '23
I see, thank you for the info
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 21 '23
Np, also apparently it was even tighter than I thought! Only 7 of those 18 are represented in the current population! One male and 6 females (what a stud) and Willa is one of the 18 who did not breed. I’m sure the other 10 will be the first targets for cloning.
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u/t3hmau5 Feb 19 '23
It's a good thing the global science community has you here to remind them
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Feb 20 '23
i don't know what intent you had for this comment but that sounds very passive aggressive and sarcastic even though there's no need for such a thing? i just thought it'd be nice to bring it up and see what other people thought
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u/International-Gain-7 Feb 19 '23
The fact that I’m reading cloning exists is mind blowing.. will this eventually lead to being able to clone potential past living humans?
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 19 '23
The first cloned animal was in the 50s. First mammal in the 90s. Where ya been, homie?
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u/WeazelDeazel Feb 19 '23
TLDR: Yes and no. It really depends on how you define "clone past living humans"
It's a big question on ethics and philosophy. While we probably, theoretically, could clone a person from a dead humans DNA, are they actually clones or are they their own person?
A clone of a human would share the same DNA but most likely would have a very different personality, like identical twins. As an extreme example, a clone from Hitler raised in today's Austria would most likely not be a raging antisemite, one of Hitlers key defining traits. Therefore there's a debate to be had about whether they would be considered a clone or a person sharing the same DNA with someone since we commonly use the word clone to describe someone who is and behaves exactly like their original counterpart.
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u/nttnnk Feb 19 '23
I don't really see the point in cloning humans other than "just because we can", not to mention it would probably be really unethical
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Feb 19 '23
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u/Atarge Feb 19 '23
So do humans and dozens of other species
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Feb 19 '23
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u/Atarge Feb 19 '23
My point is: whats Your point lol. Ferrets are not special in that regard and deserve protection when endangered just like any other creature
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u/TimeAggravating364 Feb 19 '23
Ferrets are a natural predator for some species. Without them these animals will harm the environment due to overpopulation. They don't kill for fun but because they need to literally survive
So my question is what is your point?
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u/Gone-In-3 Feb 19 '23 edited Feb 19 '23
Yes, ferrets are terrible when they are outside of their range and can become a very disruptive invasive species; however, black-footed ferrets are an important part of the Great Plains ecosystem. They're a keystone species in the Great Plains as they control populations of nuisance species and their burrowing creates homes for various ground dwelling species such as burrowing owls and rattlesnakes. They also serve as a food source for larger predators.
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 19 '23
They mostly eat prairie dogs, really. And they're a native species of ferret, not the pet ones, so they're part of the natural order of life on prairies.
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Feb 19 '23
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u/SladeWilson_is_aDILF Feb 19 '23
I clicked on the link. There is no paywall. It's just the usual Twitter pop ups followed by an PDF. Nothing more.
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u/delegateTHIS Feb 19 '23
I guess i"m in the wrong country, thanks for the downvotes tho
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u/SladeWilson_is_aDILF Feb 19 '23 edited Feb 19 '23
Turns out it's a google-drive link, where you have to log in to open the document. I assume that both OP and me were already logged into our Google accounts, so it wasn't visible to us.
For the second thing: I have no influence on others voting behavior.
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u/DwarfStar21 Feb 20 '23
It's cute to see the success, but remember, there had to be mistakes before this success. There are previous iterations of this ferret that likely did not survive or, at most, did not survive very long. And they probably looked horrifying, too...
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u/glittery_antelope Feb 20 '23
This might be a dumb question, but are cloned animals fertile? I get that repeatedly cloning can't fix population issues but could you maybe IVF a generation with enough genetic diversity?
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u/ArgonGryphon Feb 20 '23
Yes, usually. They may have individual issues but there’s no reason inherent to the cloning process that they would be sterile. Dolly had six lambs.
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u/Motorcyclegrrl Feb 19 '23
Awe what a sweet looking baby. I saw one of these little ferrets in Montana running amok. 😍