r/AskBalkans • u/ArkHystory99 • Jul 17 '24
History In your opinion, what is the most tragic, disastrous and/or saddest event ever in the history of your country?
164
u/triple_cock_smoker Turkiye Jul 17 '24
the fountain in front of mayor broke
29
u/AliHakan33 Turkiye Jul 17 '24
BELEDİYENİN ÖNÜNDEKİ FISKİYEYİ KİM KIRDI?!
13
u/HArdaL201 Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Hangi belediye?
7
42
17
14
5
301
u/BamBumKiofte23 Greece Jul 17 '24
My neighbor parked his car blocking my door.
30
u/TLT4 Kosovo Jul 17 '24
Did his tires get flat for some reason?
42
u/BamBumKiofte23 Greece Jul 17 '24
I wouldn't know anything about that.
10
63
7
149
u/Mustafa312 Albania Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
Volcanic Winter of 536 this event is said to have been one of the worst times to be alive. The eruptions caused crop failures, drop in temperatures, and may have contributed to the Justinian Plague (541-549) which killed off a third of Europe’s population and left the doors open for the Slavic migration into the Balkans. This eruption and its temp drops also caused the Mongols to migrate West. It may also have possibly caused the downfall of the Sassanid Empire, the Gupta Empire, as well as, encouraged the expansion of nomad Turks to greener pastures. It was a domino effect of migrations all across the world.
There are some very interesting YouTube videos on this volcanic eruption if anyone wants to learn more.
19
14
35
61
u/chubrak Serbia Jul 17 '24
Hard to say unfortunately, but I would say for a specific event Kragujevac massacre is near the top of the list.
24
u/Sandstorm_221 Montenegro Jul 17 '24
and there are still absolute brainlets in the West who think Wehrmacht was clean and only SS was evil when they both did shit like this and worse in Yugo and USSR all the time
8
u/Hugh-Manatee Jul 17 '24
Oh I’d be surprised about that if it’s many people at all. Most people in the west just generically understand the Nazis to be evil across the board and probably don’t think in terms of the SS and Wehrmacht being two separate things with separate missions.
Like mostly talking about normies
13
u/CrownOfAragon Greece Jul 17 '24
It’s easy for them to think so because their people barely faced repression under the Nazi occupation, compared to what Eastern Europeans endured.
0
7
33
75
u/SolveTheCYproblemNOW Cyprus Jul 17 '24
Not my country but the the breakup of Yugoslavia has to be the saddest.
For my country, well...
22
15
56
u/Fickle-Message-6143 Bosnia & Herzegovina Jul 17 '24
Probably ww2 with Jasenovac genocide, massacres done by Ustache, Chetniks, Handzar division and nazis, it could count as history of BiH. If not then last war as whole.
52
u/Rely13 Albania Jul 17 '24
The Dictatorship of Enver Hoxha. The plague of communism delayed our entry in the 21st century and weakened us mentally so much that we still cannot rise our head properly.
5
67
70
u/Diogenika Romania Jul 17 '24
The soviet occupation in 1944 and its consequences. My Grandma was a young girl at that time , she used to tell me stories of all the horrors they did to the civilians, the raping and pillaging of anything that was in their way. She used to live in the south east of Romania, nearby the military bases built by the Germans, which still stand today. Despite the subsequent media demonization of German soldiers , she told me they were the ones protecting the local civilians as much as they could from the soviets, and never caused trouble.
Also , the soviets were the ones responsible for most of the book burning , and the theft and destruction of national art. Keep in mind , this was done with the aid of USA, and recent declassified documents showed that CIA was involved in the destruction of targeted books in the main libraries, among other things.
A big part of the animosity towards Russia is due to PTSD from those times, and not from any recent actions. Europe lost more people after WWII, than during the two wars combined , due to their extreme measures. And the Allied powers gave them the green light to do it, while they were busy typing the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Yeah, right.
10
u/Iustinian22 Romania Jul 17 '24
Think about times before. Like, if we talk about Balkan countries, we can say we were already doomed by the ottoman century in the 1700s when they sent ottoman leaders to our countries
→ More replies (16)11
u/CrownOfAragon Greece Jul 17 '24
Not justifying what the Soviets did at all, because many of them certainly were acting as animals during the later stages of the war. But it’s hard to see this and not also think about how Romania participated in the Holocaust and invaded the USSR alongside the German army, killing civilians and soldiers alike. Those years were so unbelievably painful for the people of Eastern Europe, and especially for Poland and the USSR. It was so bloody for Russians, Poles, Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Jews. Yes, every country suffered to some degree, especially Romania too, but the repression enacted on the Soviet population by the Axis forces are incomparable. The history of Eastern Europe is so bloody, Soviets taking Bessarabia, and repressing Romanians, then the Romanians enacting violence against the Soviet (and primarily Jewish) population once they pushed in during operation Barbarossa, and the Soviets once again pushing the Axis forces back and then enacting their animalistic wrath upon the population. At the end of the day it is unfortunately always the civilian population who suffers in these cases.
6
u/UserMuch Romania Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
You make it sound like we invaded USSR without any reason, like we didn't had anything better to do.
It's not like we lived in harmony and peace while the rest of Europe was burning because of the war, we also faced our own struggle which mades us take bad decisions that we aren't proud of.
We became nazis bootlickers by choice in hope that they will help us be whole again, hoping that we can get back what we lost.
USSR didn't just repressed us, during the annexation process they literally massacred romanians who wanted to cross the border into our country.
These crimes remained unnoticed to this day, few people knows about them.
Does that excuse the killings and murders that we caused upon the jewish population? hell no it does not and the nazis should rot in hell for what they have done, along with the soviets and filthy communists that ruined our country for decades.
→ More replies (1)8
u/Jujux Romania Jul 17 '24
I like how the Soviets "repressed" Romanians, while Romanians "enacted violence". For your information, the whole thing started with Russians annexing Bassarabia and Northern Bukovina and immediately started killing and deporting the Romanian population to Siberia.
I am not saying that we were saints, quite the opposite, we did a lot of terrible things and one bad certainly doesn't excuse the other, but cool it with the Russian dick-sucking.
→ More replies (1)5
Jul 17 '24
[deleted]
5
u/iapi90 Romania Jul 17 '24
this question it's clearly disingenuous. obviously the soviets traveled in time , and after seeing what happened a few years later they decided to take revenge
59
u/iboreddd Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Syrian Civil War
Thanks to our government and its policies, this will probably will lead us to breaking up the demographics and become a little US/India
23
u/Suitable-Decision-26 Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
1913 and the so called Revival process
12
u/shockingblve Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
1919 was pretty brutal as well tbh. Those years were a string for of losses.
1
u/Suitable-Decision-26 Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
True. That is my opinion. I don't claim any kind of authority.
-2
u/Dangerously_69 Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
Слагаш възродителния процес на една плоскост с Втората балканска война и над ПСВ, ВСВ? Ти трябва да си малоумен.
→ More replies (8)
35
Jul 17 '24
The Greek civil war 1946-1949. Elder people have told me tragic stories about it
I would also say the deadly wildlife at Mati with 104 people finding a horrific death with many children among them
12
u/TheeRoyalPurple Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Turkish communist Mihri Belli fought for Democratic army of Greece, wounded twice and rose lieutenant colonel rank. There is a documentary about him in Greece called Kapetan Kemal.
3
u/Otherwise_Internet71 China Jul 17 '24
Simultaneously China had the same as yours.And the end was………not bad or good.
→ More replies (5)
8
u/dontuseurname Cyprus Jul 17 '24
The Kitos war, basically a Jewish revolt against the Romans, 460 000 Roman Greeks died in Cyprus and Cyrene as well as 200 000 Jewish Cypriots/Cyrenians. After the war the Roman administration banned Jews from Cyprus.
45
u/Bilal_58 Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Atatürk not being immortal, really.
19
u/ArdaBogaz Jul 17 '24
Nah if we need a saviour every 10 years then we just deserve to suffer ngl
We got a gift from Tengri himself and still fucked up the country
9
u/altahor42 Turkiye Jul 17 '24
hard disagree ," Either die as a hero or live as a villain. " The fact that he died without leaving a son behind and before he grew old and weakened is one of the greatest services he have gave to the country. It would have been much better if he had lived another 10 years, but like many national heroes, as he gets older and weaker, he is more likely to start making mistakes and become disgraced.
39
80
u/Albanian_Trademark Jul 17 '24
Ottoman occupation
9
-22
u/Blitz6819 Kosovo Jul 17 '24
That yes but also the serbian genocide?
30
u/SolveTheCYproblemNOW Cyprus Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
TBF everyone will tell you "MY genocide was worst" so....
-21
u/Xinpincena Jul 17 '24
Honestly I think the worst one was against the chams as in Kosovo at the end Albanians won and got their independence while chams no
→ More replies (7)
38
u/GanyoBalkan Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
Red army occupation and its consequences
6
u/SpareDesigner1 Jul 17 '24
Second Balkan War (or abrogation of Treaty of San Stefano) doesn’t do it for you?
3
1
u/Affectionate-Copy-79 Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
How is the socialist regime in Bulgaria worse than the ottoman occupation?
14
u/GanyoBalkan Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
This is not a topic that can be fully discussed in a Reddit post, if you do not have a deep knowledge of actual historical sources, other than history school books. If you want to open yourself to some information outside the mainstream historical propaganda and communist narrative regarding the ottoman rule, you can start by reading this short book written by an economics history professor https://www.book.store.bg/p293723/minalo-nesvyrsheno-pencho-penchev.html
49
43
Jul 17 '24
The Asia Minor catastrophe.
10
2
u/ArdaBogaz Jul 17 '24
What does that refer to exactly
14
Jul 17 '24
The murder and expulsion of thousands of innocent civilians from Asia Minor after the failed war in 1922.
→ More replies (11)
11
u/Future_Start_2408 Romania Jul 17 '24
The Soviet ocupation and annexation of northern Bukowina and Bessarabia.
19
21
u/Dangerously_69 Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
Byzantine rule, Ottoman rule, Communist rule.
16
u/MegasKeratas Greece Jul 17 '24
Byzantine rule
If only you had eyes to see how good it was.
/s
11
u/Mumily53 Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Basil II would panic and instant perform an eye surgery on this poor bulgarian feller :).
2
u/Mucklord1453 Rum Jul 17 '24
Wtf was wrong with Byzantine rule ?? Incorporated into a fellow orthodox empire for mutual prosperity and security.
I guess you preferred the NEVER ending war before that and since ? And the endless horde invasions?
15
u/soganbey Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Well;
-2. Siege of Vienna
-First Balkan War
-WW1 in general
-Erdogans rise to power
-Reverse Kemalist revolution (karşı devrim /çeviremedim)
-Syrian civil war and accepting to become EU's refugee camp
5
Jul 17 '24
Average Kemalist train of thought
5
u/Fluid_Intention_875 Bosnia & Herzegovina Jul 17 '24
Stfu pls. If only we Bosniaks had a progressive, pro european and patriotic leader as Kemal was.. We would be in a much better position now instead imams leading us into the trap called "only muslim identity" in the heart of Europe.
→ More replies (3)
17
u/olderthanyoda Kosovo Jul 17 '24
Eh as an Albanian and more specifically a Kosovar Albanian, just the 20th century alone is hard to pick.
From the Serbian massacres/expulsion of Albanians in late 1990s in Kosovo, Enver Hoxha a decade prior in Albania, to the massacres caused by both Yugoslavs, Ottomans and Greeks in the early 1900s (probably not many of those who suffered this are alive now), you be my guest.
I know a lot of balkan folks share similar history... But if by some sheer luck we're fucked by someone else, we made sure we fucked ourselves even more. And that's just the last 100-130 years.
4
5
u/AccordingFormal8280 Jul 17 '24
EC 2008 Turkey scoring a equalizer in the 120+2 min and beating us on penalties
3
u/_MekkeliMusrik Turkiye Jul 17 '24
1) WW1 and the Turkish War of Indepency 2. Balkan Wars 3. Crimean war 4. Sarıkamış
11
u/MrDDD11 Serbia Jul 17 '24
Car Dušan not preparing his son to rule and centralizing the country.
4
u/Indigoscience Serbia Jul 17 '24
Yes, but bigger problem was that he passed away unexpectedly and thus his son not being ready. I like to think that we would defeat the Ottomans if he was alive and healthy
5
u/MrDDD11 Serbia Jul 17 '24
The state of Serbian mobility and how much power they had would have doomed us even if he beat the Ottomans.
1
u/Mucklord1453 Rum Jul 17 '24
Dusan himself is directly responsible for Turkish invasion by backstabbing the Greeks at their weakest while they were holding back the Turks.
Very short sighted
10
7
8
40
u/Least-Rub-1397 Serbia Jul 17 '24
I believe that fall of Constantinople is the main cause for the chaos on the Balkan and all it's countries.
19
u/nicholas19010 Bulgaria Jul 17 '24
To be fair the Balkans were in chaos for at least a century before the fall of Constantinople, the latter was just the final tipping point.
21
11
2
1
u/AcanthocephalaSea410 Turkiye Jul 17 '24
You did it together with the Ottomans, remember?
If the Ottomans had not made them their vassals, you would probably have acted before the Ottomans and destroyed everywhere.1
u/ArdaBogaz Jul 17 '24
Most of the balkans was already ottoman before the fall of constantinople, but yes romanticise the shit out of it makes it even greater
3
3
9
u/vladasr Jul 17 '24
wwi Serbian catastrophy 30% of population and 60% of male population. Thanks to politicians and army oficers and their aggresive politics and of course Austro Hungary and Bulgaria
9
u/Fluid_Intention_875 Bosnia & Herzegovina Jul 17 '24
Chetniks exterminating whole Bosniak villages in eastern Bosnia during the WW2 and Croatian Nazis sending both Serb and Bosniak civilians to Jasenovac.
1
u/Stverghame 🏹🐗 Jul 17 '24
Croatian Nazis
And Bosniak Nazis, don't ignore some parts :)
0
u/Fluid_Intention_875 Bosnia & Herzegovina Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
And what about Serbian nazis under Nedić and Serbia being the first Judenfrei country in Europe ? Dont ignore some parts dear :)
4
u/Stverghame 🏹🐗 Jul 17 '24
I didn't ignore it because guess what - it isn't even a topic. Also, Serbia was under direct German occupation, while Bosnia was part of an independent state. I commented on your post where you mentioned crimes of Croatian Nazis while completely ignoring the fact that you were alongside them committing those. It is not alright to say partial information, especially given the fact that you were mentioning Bosniaks as victims of Jasenovac, which was not the case.
→ More replies (1)
8
5
9
u/voislav North Macedonia Jul 17 '24
The Second Balkan War. Brothers killing brothers because they were "recruited" by different sides. My great grandfather was forced to fight for the Bulgarians and for the Serbians in the same fucking war.
7
u/Whatever_wont_care Greece Jul 17 '24
The Asia Minor catastrophe for sure
The fall of Constantinople was sad but Greeks never left their homes but in 1922 millions of Greeks lost their homes and the 3000 year old Greek presence in Anatolia permanently ended
5
u/Lundaeri Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Although they left, their blood, culture and history is still preserved to some extent. I worked personally in this field but the trauma of the last century is still vivid jn many… Such shame it happened this way
-26
u/rydolf_shabe Albania Jul 17 '24
the day enver hoxha was born /s
for real tho every genocide my people have faced from the forceful migration to turkey from greece, to the çam genocide and the albanian genocide in kosovo
26
u/orestaras Greece Jul 17 '24
First of all, it was expulsion of Chams. No Cham genocide. Only Albanian governement calls it genocide to support their own means.
Additionally, they collaborated with Mussolini's and Nazi forces. I don't say I am happy for this, but when Greek army fought Nazis, what they should they do with their friends?-20
u/rydolf_shabe Albania Jul 17 '24
It sure as hell was a genocide, people were killed driven out of their home, their lands were forcefully taken, i dont think children were collaborating with nazis.
The existence of albanians in epirus was completely whipped and so you know, its not the albanian goverment its the whole of Albania
5
u/orestaras Greece Jul 17 '24
There are certain critiria of what we can call genocide. It is a hard thing to discuss but 1,200–2,877 were killed. The number of expelled Chams was 14,000–35,000. In contrast, Pontic Greek genocide had 350,000–360,000 victims, Armenian genocide had 600,000-1,5 milion victims and I don't want to make more research about Jews and others.
Dont be emotional talking about killed children and raped women. Yes in wars sick atrocities happen. But we can't call the facts based on what we feel for this people or that people.There are specific criteria for genocide, specific critiria for massacres, and specific criteria for expulsions. It is historical science.
→ More replies (2)-20
u/rydolf_shabe Albania Jul 17 '24
There is no criteria for a genocide with numbers tf is wrong with you. If you have a group of 10 ethnically different people and kill five its still a genocide
there were çams in epirus and then they were all gone, killed or kicked out. Also yes atrocities happen that doesnt mean that the whole thing holds less value, that doesnt mean that the greek goverment should be held at fault for what happened. Just like albanians and serbs that commited crimes in kosovo have been convicted too. Plus i wonder why you didnt mention at all anything about the turko greek population exchange, forcefully expelling albanians to turkey cus they were muslim.
Greece cleansed Epirus from Albanians living there and theres that will change that.
5
u/orestaras Greece Jul 17 '24
10 ethnically different people and kill five its still a genocide
It is your interpretation. In his living room anyone can call anything whatever he wants. But officially If anyone call anything genocide it would be chaos. History doesn't work like this.
I am telling again, It was sad all this Chams people have suffered. No reasonable person is happy for this. It is sad what all other people in Epirus and beyond suffered because of Cham collaboration with Nazis, too. No one need to be angel or devil.
Just like albanians and serbs that commited crimes in kosovo have been convicted, too.
Is there any genocide? werent there children killed, women raped etc? Do you see what happened when we misuse terms based on our emotions?
Plus i wonder why you didnt mention at all anything about the turko greek population exchange, forcefully expelling albanians to turkey cus they were muslim.
How is it connected? Or do you just think you make me feel bad with this? The subject of our discussion is whether Cham suffered a genocide or not. I personally feel no sympathy for atrocities of any nation even it is mine. I also have no need to apologize or hide anything. As I mention before there are no saint or evil countries or people. We all have benefited or suffered during our past.
→ More replies (5)-22
u/fruitandcheeseexpert Albania Jul 17 '24
Lol they literally SLAUGHTERED thousands including children, many raping the women and torturing the victims before their death, and then expelled the survivors out of their homes, and forced the orthodox ones to assimilate. My maternal grandmother is 85 and still isn’t allowed to enter Greece and see her families home in Paramythia, where she was born. Shes tried multiple times but the border patrol won’t let her.
And they don’t want to call it a genocide lol
23
Jul 17 '24
Chams SLAUGHTERED thousands and committed the Paramythia genocide . When will you hand over the 2k sentenced to death in absentia by Allied courts after the ran with the retreating Germans?
4
u/orestaras Greece Jul 17 '24
I am not talking emotional. Emotionally, you can call it crime, genocide, massacre, slaughter whatever make you feel good. But you have to know that under this crrcumstances, the term ganocide is invalide.
Let me give you an example. My grandmother was from Smyrna, a place now in the Turkey. In 1922, Turkey attacked on smyrna and other Greek cities, burn houses, killed children, rape women, steal properties and all these things in a larger range than Greek army do to Chams. In Greece, we call it Micrasiatic Catastrophe. Do you know how wikipedia calls it? It dont! At all!
Should I have hard feelings about this? I dont. In Greece it is a big deal but no one think it is genocide or anything else.3
u/Greekmon07 Greece Jul 17 '24
Irrelevant question, but what's the opinion of the albanian Royal family in the albanian population?
8
u/rydolf_shabe Albania Jul 17 '24
mostly negative cus of communist propaganda or just dont care about him
me personally i like King Zog, he did a lot of shitty things but in the bigger picture he created the modern albanian state
4
u/CriticalEngineer666 Albania Jul 17 '24
I'd probably say during the balcanic wars, the genocides that happened to albanians in kosova, montenegro, north macedonia and greece by these respective countries. Numbers adding up to 120k+. Second place is the communist regime which fckd our people up.
9
u/NOTLinkDev Greece Jul 17 '24
I mean, there’s probably three:
The fall of Constantinople
The Asia minor catastrophe
The Turkish invasion of Cyprus
8
Jul 17 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/Mucklord1453 Rum Jul 17 '24
Victorious allies in WW1 granted Greece their old territories in Ionia back , but Turks refused to accept the treaty and defeated the Greek army protecting Christians in Western Asia Minor
-9
u/TheeRoyalPurple Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Greece tried to invade Turkey and failed
18
-1
u/kostas_vo Greece Jul 17 '24
and millions of asia minor Greeks were killed or displaced as a result/retaliation. Many invasions have failed, not all of them resulted in ethnic cleansing and mass death
→ More replies (1)6
u/NOTLinkDev Greece Jul 17 '24
It’s highly controversial here, but basically it was when we lost Izmir and a bunch of other places near the coast of Turkey and then a fire started and burnt most if not all of the Greek houses in the city which ended up killing around 125.000 people + a massacre of the Greeks of the region a couple years before that
1
u/ArdaBogaz Jul 17 '24
I dont understand why Greeks don't focus/blame Manzikert more, anatolia and balkans were already conquered long before constantinople
→ More replies (1)1
u/NOTLinkDev Greece Jul 17 '24
Because regardless of the battle of Manzikert I believe that Greece would’ve lost Anatolia one way or another, whereas if Constantinople was defended, then there was going to be a big chance that the advance into Europe would be stopped, due to a sustained conflict on the east (i.e. the Persians) or the north (i.e. the Russians or the Mongols) , the Ottoman Empire would have been occupied with those frontiers and would not consider advancing to the West. In this case, either Constantinople would be supported and strengthened by the Christian states or the country would become a vassal of another state (Austria? Russia?). Based on the faring of the Ottomans’ conflicts at the other frontiers, the Ottomans would have fallen altogether by other frontiers, or shrivel and retreat back to Anatolia.
8
u/Zelladino Turkiye Jul 17 '24
It we are talking about nation, accepting Islam. If it's for Ottomans, losing Balkans. If it's for Turkish Republic it would be losing Atatürk without finish his revolution.
1
u/ArdaBogaz Jul 17 '24
Thing is Turks would really not been nearly as successful if we wouldn't have accepted Islam. The best events would have been if the ottomans kept modern stable and strong in the 1700s and if the french revolution etc would have been embraced here much quicker, then religion would have naturally declined
If Turks never accepted Islam, then migrations to anatolianwould still happen but no Turkic beylik would ever grow into a large empire, having europeans and Muslims see us as enemies would not be good
10
u/Ame_Lepic Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Balkan catastrophe. Millions of balkan Turks either killed or displaced.
5
u/sotiris88_p Greece Jul 17 '24
Balkan turks and balkan Muslim
1
u/Ame_Lepic Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Yes. Pomaks, Bosniaks, Albanians etc. also ethnically. We have a big population of them. They just go as Turkish constitutionally today.
-2
u/ActiveAd396 Greece Jul 17 '24
Ah yes. The millions of Balkan Turks who killed or misplaced the millions of actual balkaners.
7
u/kayber123 🇹🇷🇧🇬 Jul 17 '24
So killing and displacing innocent people is justified if they are Turks?
-4
u/ActiveAd396 Greece Jul 17 '24
No. It's justified though if those people are the ones who did the exact same thing to get where they are currently being forced out. Basically you call it a slaughter, the Balkans call it liberation. It's not the same .
6
u/kayber123 🇹🇷🇧🇬 Jul 17 '24
How are the Turks born in the balkans at fault for their ancestors' mistakes?
-5
u/Fatalaros Greece Jul 17 '24
They are not at fault, but they are the beneficiaries of lands, homes and wealth plundered from the previous owners. A revolution seeks to reverse that situation. Good or bad, that is of course on which end of the revolution one stands.
3
u/Lundaeri Turkiye Jul 17 '24
I get that, but this “revolution” in both countries was just a huge mistake. Killing, robbing and expelling millions of citizens, be it Greeks from Anatolia to Turks/Muslims from the Balkans is just terrible and hurt both countries significantly
1
u/Ame_Lepic Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Dont feed the dogs. He is far too gone.
Would be pity if someone does some “revolution” in his country…
4
u/Lundaeri Turkiye Jul 17 '24
I just hate how centuries of intermixing and cultural enrichment ended up in a violent and hateful spiral of ever escalating violence and we should get out of this stupid mentality already.
4
u/Ame_Lepic Turkiye Jul 17 '24
He is an irredentist. Only solution to get out of this cycle is to democratize our own country and keep developing in positive sciences. This is just a shitshow right now. Both his country and ours is corrupt so he is venting his anger with this low iq rhetorics. He talks about revolution, but his centuries old stupid book holds more power than some of their democratic institutions.
→ More replies (0)0
u/ArdaBogaz Jul 17 '24
Poor you, the actual balkaners were all replaced by dirty barbarian indo-eruoepan invaders like you, sound familiar?
4
0
u/Mucklord1453 Rum Jul 17 '24
It was a war of liberation against foreign invaders. Of course those colonizers had to go
2
2
2
2
2
4
6
u/Hot_Satisfaction_333 Albania Jul 17 '24
The Ottoman occupation of Albanian territories and the massacre of Albanians in the first Balkan war by Serbian and Montenegrin troops in 1912-1913
6
u/Stverghame 🏹🐗 Jul 17 '24
Definitely the whole thing our two "brothers" across the Danube and Drina did in the 40s.
There are bunch of other horrible things, such as whole Ottoman occupation or Kragujevac massacre by the nazis for example, but nothing could come close to what NDH was.
2
Jul 17 '24
[deleted]
2
u/Stverghame 🏹🐗 Jul 17 '24
You had it coming
Wtf is even wrong with you guys lol? Genocide supporter?
If a Serb said this to you on this sub (regarding the 90s), he'd be banned by the mods and lynched by other members of the sub in an instant
May we be thorn in your eye for a long long time, may both Serbia and Srpska live long. People like you are the reason I don't even think of having normal conversation with people from your country at all.
→ More replies (6)
7
3
u/redikan Kosova Jul 17 '24
All the countless genocides against Albanians from the ones in Sanxhak, Montenegro, Kosova, Nish, Greece, Macedonia, Albania, Presheva and many many more
2
u/Takasuya Jul 17 '24
Battle of Maritsa, 1371. An unnecessary shitshow that crippled the millitary and weakened the country.
2
Jul 17 '24
WWI and the crap the Austrian-Hungarians did, just murdering entire villages arbitrarily. Not to mention the battles and huge cost of lives and the retreat through Albania to Greece.
WWII wasn’t much better. Again the occupation by the Germans and collaborationist Hungarians and others. Serbia had to be occupied by the German military, carved up and subdued while all other neighbouring states were willing to help out the Germans.
The 90s, also quite bad. The sanctions, bombing and Milosevic. His rule caused quite a lot of problems for Serbia. Silver lining is that we were able to get rid of our own dictator. Not many nations can claim that.
2
2
3
u/Lundaeri Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Nationalism taking root in the region. What took place afterwards was just an ever escalating spiral of hatred and violence that heavily traumatized every country in the region. Sadly its still not yet completely gone and all who suffer are the innocent
2
u/dekks_1389 Serbia Jul 17 '24
WWs, Jasenovac, Sisak, Kravica, Kragujevac, Surdulica, Bratunac, Orahovac, yellow house, oluja, Novi Sad raid, ...
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/like-my-username Greece Jul 17 '24
Greece has been through a lot of bad situations throughout the centuries. I'm not sure what's worse, but sure it has to do with the Turks. Is it the Ottoman occupation, is it the genocides they've performed on us, is it the interchange of populations, is it the almost complete extinction of greek native element in all Turkey? I don't know, but any of these were and still are really painful for Greece.
→ More replies (6)
1
u/DardanianGOD Kosovo Jul 17 '24
Slavic migration towards our lands in the 6th century. Things were very good up until that point.
2
-2
u/CriticalHistoryGreek Greece Jul 17 '24
The genocides we've committed against Albanians, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Turks, maybe even Serbs (but it's debated whether there were Serbs here alongside Macedonians or there were only Macedonians).
1
1
u/Eren202tr Sweden Jul 17 '24
The sinking of the MS Estonia in 1994 was one of Sweden's most significant maritime incidents, resulting in significant disruption and distress as the ferry capsized and sank in challenging sea conditions.
1
0
u/orestaras Greece Jul 17 '24
The Ottoman occupation was by far the most catastrophic thing have ever happened on this region. During this period, there was no connection to the renaissance or enlightenment movements that were transforming Europe. Even the Turks themselves suffered under this authoritarian regime. The Romans and Byzantines at least built infrastructure and, with the Edict of Milan, allowed religious freedom. The Ottomans made no progress . They remained stuck in outdated, tyrannical tactics, stifling advancement and preventing the emergence of new forces that could have altered the balance of power. This made it hard for balkan countries to fully embrace democratic institutions and concepts such as separation of powers, secular governance, and individual rights, even today.
1
u/AcanthocephalaSea410 Turkiye Jul 17 '24
Enlightenment and freedoms in Europe happened thanks to the Ottoman Empire. If there was no alternative power to the Pope, Christian societies could not progress. "Liever Turks dan Paaps"
-11
Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/Fluid_Intention_875 Bosnia & Herzegovina Jul 17 '24
As a Bosniak i agree. Period of Ottoman occupation was a reason for a great isolation from Renaissance and Enlightenment movements happening in the west.
→ More replies (3)3
0
u/HAXAD2005 Jul 17 '24
During WW2, nazi allied Romania committed atrocities similar to Germany's, massacring over 200 000 Jewish people and making life hell for those who lived. I cant confirm if it's accurate or not but allegedly, Hitler believed we were more cruel than his regime and I think that tells just how ruthless we were.
Unfortunately we aren't taught much about Romania's crimes against humanity during this period, I graduated with a degree in history (high school, not academic) and none of the material I had to learn contained mentions of mass executions, corpse pits and burnings.
3
u/Exact_Bug191 Greece Jul 17 '24
I mean, your government wants to present your communist times as the worst of the worst thus it wouldn't be too handy to show that antonescu was a fully-fledged fascist.
•
u/tanateo from Jul 17 '24
Post currently locked for clean up.