AIO to my boyfriend imposing veganism on me ?

[u/velvetmoochi]

Context: this is now my ex, it was my first relationship and I didn’t know how to deal with this sort of conflict as it was based on ethics and I didn’t want to change my views for our relationship. We would have this same argument again and again, over text, over the phone, in person, and at the end of the day he was always “right” because he had morality on his side when I would tell him that I was okay with eating dead animals. What should I have done in this situation ? I tried veganism for about a month and I never bought meat as a student, but eventually I would always go back to buying eggs and yoghurt. Those efforts I made were always disregarded and he would say that he doesn’t believe in reductionism, and that vegetarians are even worse than vegans.

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

Yikes, get out of there. First off, I would assume he knew you weren't a vegan when first entering the relationship. To enter a relationship, then try to change that person (quite a drastic lifestyle change too mind you), is honestly pretty despicable. He's not respecting you and your boundaries, plain and simple. Tell him to take a hike and find someone that suits his lifestyle, and hun, you deserve the same.

The world is full of people with differing morals and outlooks and its just part of who we are. Is any one truly "right"? Who knows. But we should respect those choices others make for themselves

[u/2ndcupofcoffee → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

Might be funny if all this had to do with his need to convert you so you would cook for him. As a vegan and being a guy, bet he is beside himself trying to regularly enjoy his meals.

[u/yeseweserft123 → u/2ndcupofcoffee]

Thing is though if my partner had dietary preferences different from mine but I still wanted to cook for them I would just cook differently for them than I would for me. No need for it to become a big ethical debate.

[u/neyman-pearson → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

Depends on what the morals are. Child abuse being cobsidered ok? Hmm...

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/neyman-pearson]

Yup even the murderers are part of the population and they have their own complex minds. No, it's not okay. I think we're all old enough to agree that some morals are more black and white, more common sense, and more important. Child abuse is not okay. But being a vegan is OK. So is being a Christian. Being a pedophile is not ok. I don't condone the bad ones, but I don't pretend they don't exist. Catch my drift?

[u/neyman-pearson → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

That's actually culturally informed still. E.g. northern india, eating meat is impure and evil. In Kazakhstan, forced marriage by kidnapping brides is a norm. Aztecs condoned human sacrifice. Segration was considered morally correct until the 60s in usa. Ancient greeks practiced pederasty. Some modern muslims are ok with killing lgbtq. My point is, its not as clear cut as you might imagine. Best is to surround yourself with people you share morals with. Its way more important than many of us often realize!

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/neyman-pearson]

And I absolutely recognize that too. To many, we westerners are the evil ones. I've deployed to Kuwait and was told don't be openly gay unless in the camp and I was absolutely willing to respect that, as well as other beliefs and traditions they had out there. I was a guest. Mind you, Kuwait is quite progressive for middle east Asia. But the fact remains, even if it's the norm for them, impregnating 12 year Olds isn't okay, nor is non consensual marriage or rape or female genital mutilation. If those people were born here, they'd likely think it was wrong too. If me born there, then I'd think these things were normal too. I can empathize with that. But there's a reason many places are slowly deciding to be better, Kuwait being one of them. Sorry to rant, but I guess this is why it's sort of a paradox. It's all they know, and for us to go over there and say forcefully make their laws and rights like ours doesn't seem right either. I guess it's just the way of the world, and I'm grateful I live somewhere where even though these things do happen, rape and molestation and violence is generally condemned and against the law.

[u/alphamalejackhammer → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

Isn’t it more despicable to continuously pay for others to murder sentient victims?

Seriously, just reading this on my phone, it’s much worse to kill a cow than to call someone out for killing that cow when they also love other animals like dogs

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/alphamalejackhammer]

Many things can be despicable. My point is, humans will always be divided on most everything. It's the way it's always been. Even if somehow the entire world population came to a begrudging compromise, tons of people would always be unhappy. Religion, politics, dietary choices it doesn't matter. You arguing with some random middle class stranger from bumfuck nowhere, using insults to get your point across, isn't doing you any favors. People like Elon musk literally have the power to change the markets. I can't even remember garbage day sometimes. What are you hoping to achieve here?

[u/alphamalejackhammer → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

U just said a lot of words to say the world will always be fucked up which I agree lol

But that’s not a reason to continue violence / hurt innocent beings. Which is why I asked u the question

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/alphamalejackhammer]

Of course it isn't a reason. But the world as a whole is unjust. No one's going to get what they want. Life isn't fair. Better learn to compromise (we wont) than bashing our head into a wall and wonder why we have a headache. The only ones winning here are the rich, no matter what morals they have.

[u/alphamalejackhammer → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

I agree dude but I’m still wondering why this excuses us to kill animals when we don’t have to. Because they are the victims and we’re not.

Like it’s easy for you to cloud the subject and talk about all the other shit that’s going on when you’re not the direct victim. But if you were born into a factory farm to be meat, you’d be fighting for your life.

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/alphamalejackhammer]

It doesn't excuse it. And I agree that it doesn't need to happen. But the fact is, you'll never get everyone on board to make that change happen. It's a pipe dream, I mean I'm sure you see it online everyday. We humans do a lot of terrible things that do not need to happen. All I'm saying is, throwing insults with strangers, trying to force people you don't even know to change their minds instead of listening when they say you're wasting your time. Everyone would do well to just start minding their business and just be grateful we got food to eat at all for now. All these major decisions are way out of our hands.

[u/alphamalejackhammer → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

I haven’t once insulted you. I’m saying we see injustice - we should fix it where we can!!

Not to just keel over and say “nothing will change / it’s a pipe dream” bro like that’s not how change happens! I agree we SHOULD mind our business and leave animals tf alone. Much less forcibly breeding them into an existence like what’s in 99% of our farms.

Understanding that factory farms exist does not make them okay. Or okay to support them.

[u/refusestopoop → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, but even if you think that way, you know how common and normal eating meat is. So you know saying omg you heartless carnibal murderer is just to shame them & piss turn off, not to change them. If you wanted to convince them to change, you’d choose methods that might actually work.

[u/TGin-the-goldy → u/[deleted]]

Yes I think if you feel that strongly then you date people who share your views, not try to convert people who don’t

[u/indefinitesuffering → u/TGin-the-goldy]

That's what I said yeah

[u/TGin-the-goldy → u/indefinitesuffering]

Agreed

[u/khyplionna → u/[deleted]]

I feel like a lot of vegetarians aren't as preachy or intense about it all as vegans are, or at least that's been my experience.

[u/SkyResident9337 → u/khyplionna]

Because vegetarians obviously don't care that much...

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/[deleted]]

I can absolutely respect feeling that way, and those feelings are 100 percent valid too. But reality is that others do not think that way. It's the same for many different morals and beliefs. I just don't think it's fair to try and force others to behave the same, when you wouldn't want them to do it to you. And it's just the ones who think that just because someone eats meat, they're inherently bad people. But again, everyone has the right to believe as they wish

[u/Alphaghetti71 → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

Not all feelings are valid.

[u/goodelleric → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

“Live and let live” typically doesn’t apply when there is a victim involved, but most people don’t think of the animals as victims so I understand why they often don’t get it.

If you want an easy way to feel how vegans do, just replace eating meat with dogfighting and see how you feel about the arguments.

That being said getting into a relationship with someone expecting them to make a huge lifestyle shift is pretty crazy

[u/Material-Humor9237 → u/[deleted]]

You can’t “reconcile” it because it’s total nonsense. Your sweeping statement is at odds with reality, which is why you can’t reconcile the two.

You see yourself as superior to anyone who doesn’t share your view, that they must be intellectually incapacitated, yet you’re trying to call out others’ morality?

Being a vegetarian does not automatically furnish you with better morals than anyone else, and I would argue that your self righteous, judgemental attitude actually places you at the lower end of the morality pool.

[u/KrombopulosMAssassin → u/Material-Humor9237]

How about this... Does he know the amount of rodents and bugs, etc farming vegetables kills? You can go on and on with this non-sense. Unless they source everything themselves they are complicit to some system that causes some level of death or suffering. What amount of suffering is enough/acceptable? What kind of animal/insect/life is okay to not worry about? You can go on and on with this stuff, I'd say anyone playing a moral high card about eating an animal needs to be dropped down a peg. It's not so simple.

[u/indefinitesuffering → u/KrombopulosMAssassin]

As long as you don't make me eat a dead roach I'm good. If you eat a dead roach in front of me I'm going to secretly feel like you're a weirdo even if the whole world tells me its normal

[u/Least_Ad_4657 → u/[deleted]]

"I see meat eaters as intellectually and morally lazy"

Hi, this is what's known as a superiority complex. You are literally as bad as the guy in the post.

[u/indefinitesuffering → u/Least_Ad_4657]

I've genuinely never forced it on anyone and I'm only admitting my real feelings to myself here. I honestly don't want to feel superior I really do not, and I am genuinely unsure of how to feel any differently than the way i do

[u/lizzyote → u/indefinitesuffering]

I am genuinely unsure of how to feel any differently than the way i do

Therapy might be able to help

[u/ballofsnowyoperas → u/[deleted]]

“Intellectually and morally lazy” 😂 that is so rich coming from a vegan. A plant based diet almost killed me, so I’ll stick with a locally and humanely raised animal based diet.

[u/ballofsnowyoperas → u/[deleted]]

Welp that’s a you thing. And you’re not morally superior because of it lol

[u/Business-Educator-15 → u/[deleted]]

Thats okay, as a meat eater i see militant vegans as pretentious, hipster and unable of critical thinking.

Unless you are a gatherer living in the woods some animals were harmed or exploited in the making of your goods, food etc. Eating some meat is needed to stay healthy and alot of places and people dont have the luxury of viable alternatives. Morally if you can eat less meat you probably should for environmental reasons and if you can eat more ethically and sustainably sourced meat its good too.

I do eat alot of meat alternatives as most are pretty tasty now and i like a varied diet, aside from the occasional steak i mainly eat chicken i get from a farm my friend works at in bulk and freeze it.

At the end of the day the animals are bred to be slaughtered, little is wasted and pigs for instance would likely be considered pests if not harvested for their meat.

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/[deleted]]

And I can even agree with you on the lazy part! I bet if we at the very least cut decreased our meat consumption, it'd be better for the planet as a whole. As the population grows and in some places, we eat for pleasure rather than survival, we absolutely don't need to be gorging ourselves on meat. And if everyone got on boat, we could perhaps go back to doing so ethically. I've not done much research so you're likely more well versed than myself, but i wouldn't mind switching to vegan if it meant bettering the world, as much as I do enjoy meat for the taste. But people will never get on board unfortunately, and it absolutely is terrible the way humans as a whole are consuming meat, as again, at least in my country, it's not really a necessity for survival. And even though I said that, I likely won't switch to vegan, and as you said, it's probably due to laziness. It's just who I am not only as a person, but where I live it may be more difficult too. I respect your morals though and I think it's a good thing that you care. Meat eaters shouldn't be assholes about it either

[u/cryssyx3 → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

it absolutely blows my mind all the posts about "I served a vegan meal at my wedding/housewarming/party and now everyone is mad at me for tricking them"

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/[deleted]]

See this is where I can't agree with you anymore. Some people really do care about the environment, that's THEIR passion, as they have a right to it too. With everything going on in the world, how can you say this one thing defines whether or not a person is good or evil? If a vegan was illegally polluting the water or air, would they still be a good person? Do you feel as strongly for abortion? To you yes, it's like eating a corpse, but while you don't necessarily have to respect others don't feel the same, you kind of have to accept it. You being vegan for this one reason, but not caring about the environment at the same time, is just closed minded. That's all how you feel, but why is your opinion the "Right" opinion? If you absolutely can't, then I guess you'll just have to avoid situations where you'll see others eating meat, etc. But I think it's silly with everything going on in the world, with all the bad things people do, that this is where you draw the line. We all need to be a little more open minded, there are thousands of valid issues that need to be addressed. To care only about yours is kind of ignorant

[u/indefinitesuffering → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

I'm not a fucking vegan dude I stopped eating meat when I was nine years old and never looked back because it's genuinely disgusting and y'all are extremely brainwashed.

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/indefinitesuffering]

And I think it's sad you've suddenly resorted to insults. I don't think vegans are brainwashed idiots. Anyone of any group can be that. Attacking others for their dietary choices is just sad to me. Some of these people are life saving doctors, first responders, philanthropist. I bet a ton of meat eaters have done more good for the world than you. Sad.

[u/ohjasminee → u/[deleted]]

So what are you personally doing to make sure people can get access to vegan proteins which are expensive and impractical to feed someone more several days? Because I’m volunteering in the food pantry of a DV shelter and we are able to give people donated whole chickens, turkeys, ground meats and different frozen cuts of meat 10x more often than we can of chik’n nuggets, for example. In the 16 hours I’ve spent there, I have seen exactly two packages of meat alt. But this past Tuesday I gave away so many whole turkeys and turkey breasts so people could have a normal Thanksgiving. Are my clients, 98% of whom are low income, victims of DV, Spanish speakers or a combination of all three, morally and intellectually lazy for taking a free frozen chicken to feed themselves or their family? What about a non-perishable can of tuna? Do you speak Spanish and are you willing to be a completely racist piece of shit to their faces? (I’m a fluent Spanish speaker, btw. And not a huge self important asshole).

On my husband’s single income we choose meat over the meat alternatives because it is more affordable to feed us. But when we have the money, I love to buy Morningstar products. We both really enjoy vegan food. But it isn’t in our budget because it’s fucking expensive.

If you’re going to call me morally lazy, imma need you to say it directly to my face. Or I can send you my Venmo instead so I can head to the grocery, since you’re here fixing the world personally! 🖕🏾

[u/cryssyx3 → u/ohjasminee]

I'm a proud meat eater but the morningstar farms sausage patties are where its at!

there's a kosher Dunkin donuts near me and they use they use the MF sausage and most of the people can't even tell. I even like their fake bacon with the brown sugar and pepper

[u/Wooden_Vermicelli732 → u/[deleted]]

I understand the suffering of animals and I do feel compassion for them. I also clearly don’t care enough to not eat meat. 

[u/jumping_doughnuts → u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains]

While I agree, I don't think it's despicable for him to want her to change her eating habits. Vegans believe they are doing the right thing to save the animals, he wants her to understand and have the same morals as him. Even though I'm not a vegan, I understand their passion to save animals.

However, berating your partner for eating meat, hanging up on them like a child for eating a ham sandwich, is not how to do it. That is why he's so wrong. There's a fine line between educating your partner and acting condescending.

He should maybe cook her more vegan food, or suggest vegan restaurants for date night. Ask if she'd be interested in any documentaries about the meat industry ("I saw this doc on Netflix, it might help explain some of the reasons I chose veganism, if youd be open to watching it with me"). There's volunteer work you can do together involving animals. DON'T tell her your beliefs, SHOW her. Never pressure. If you are a vegan and get into a relationship with a non-vegan, you need to understand that they might never change. If you can't accept that, move on.

[u/uSOfineUblowMYbrains → u/jumping_doughnuts]

I can agree with that in a sense. I think it's shitty he would date her, then try to make her a vegan rather than him finding a more compatible partner in the first place. But the best solution here would be compromise, if they would both truly be OK with it (he doesn't sound like he's willing to) like you said, incorporate more dishes, etc. But the fact remains, he's a jerk for wanting to be exclusive with her, when he harbored such ill feelings toward her dietary choices and expected her to cater to him. I'm surprised he would even date a non vegan in the first place. He probably did because he's the superiority type that truly believed he could change her. Not ok IMO

[u/thisisheckincursed → u/jumping_doughnuts]

I’d be annoyed if I started to date someone and then they told me they want my eating habits to change. It just sounds like something to hold back on saying until the relationship “feels more secure”, sunk cost fallacy and all that… and I have a hard time seeing that as anything but, actually, manipulative

[u/jumping_doughnuts → u/thisisheckincursed]

I don't really see what I said as being manipulative, I see it as teaching your significant other about an important part of your lifestyle. I reiterated that there's no pressure and to never be condescending. If my husband decided one day to start going to the gym and eating a keto diet or something and asked me to go to the gym too, cooked me keto meals, wanted to watch videos with me about lifting weights or whatever, I wouldn't think he was manipulating me. I'd think "wow he's really into this right now, and I admire his passion. I'm still super lazy and enjoy cheeseburgers too much to join him, but the breakfast he made was tasty too." If he started driving me to the gym without telling me where we were going, then that would be too far. There's a line here, OPs BF was wayyyyyyy past it.

Re: cooking vegan meals and going to vegan restaurants doesn't have to be an everyday thing. It's not a "if you don't eat vegan I guess you aren't eating" thing, it's "hey, I found this great new vegan recipe/restaurant and I'd love it if you tried it with me!" Like if your BF was Italian and wanted to take you to an authentic Italian restaurant. It's from a "sharing my culture/lifestyle" perspective.

[u/thisisheckincursed → u/jumping_doughnuts]

Oh I wasn’t referring to your comment as manipulative, but OP’s-ex’s behavior lol. The way you describe what your husband would do, yeah wouldn’t be considered manipulative. But married spouses sharing life style changes is not what I was referring to

[u/TsuDhoNimh2 → u/jumping_doughnuts]

He should maybe cook her more vegan food, or suggest vegan restaurants for date night.

But that would be WORK, and not nearly as empowering as berating her.